Let’s Play a Game
When one of TDC’s own members called us the the AARP of David fan sites, it was meant as an insult, but we all thought it was actually rather amusing. You have to take these things in stride. There are other things that are harder to take in stride, especially ones that seem to impact so negatively on David’s career or opportunities. But then, perhaps, it’s best to try and make light of them, too.
The reference to AARP, as it turns out, may be more apt than at first thought. Even though I am only in my forties, my memory lapses seem to be quite profound on occasion, and I thought perhaps I would try and fill the gaps in my waning brain power by way of a little game.
I’ve decided to call it, “Who is That Ass in the Room?”
ROUND ONE!
Who is the one who lied about never having received instructions from a certain competition’s attorneys prohibiting the use of extra, copyrighted material that had been added to a song slated for performance in that competition? Despite continued public claims of no communication, a private admission acknowledges an email that had been “missed.” The defiance resulted in a ban from the set (or at least that’s what was used as the excuse).
Who is That Ass in the Room?
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ROUND TWO!
Who is the one who thought so little of risking careers, reputations, and family life that they sought to satisfy a perfectly reasonable human need by patronizing the cheapest, sleaziest, and least-discreet version possible of services in that particular category, and ultimately got arrested for it?
Who is That Ass in the Room?
![]()
ROUND THREE!
Who is the one who, when approached about a charity event with the potential to raise over $50,000 — something that had been in the works for months and which was developed by, and on behalf of, all the tireless devotees who maintain and participate in online communities that contribute to powerful viral marketing — refused to even review a proposal, no less discuss it with the artist?
Who is That Ass in the Room?
![]()
LIGHTNING ROUND!
Who is the one who, when the public humiliation of the solicitation episode was just starting to fade, angled to have their own name highlighted (the only name other than that of the artist) in the official description copy of a new album release — thereby giving every reviewer, journalist, and blogger license to reference the aforementioned trashy indiscretions when they report about the new album?
Who is That Ass in the Room?
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Note: A rhetorical memory game does not require an actual answer to the central question, nor indeed to any of the questions that make up the rounds of the game.
–Rascal












Uh . . . John Phillips? No? Uh . . . Michael Lohan? No? Uh . . . Joe Jackson? no? Hm, I’m stumped.
Gasp! I thought it was a bear, never mind… (peeps don’t ask).
No actual answers are needed. It’s rhetorical.
Oh dear… that “Ass” strikes again!
I know you’ve been gunning for us to get our position on this particular topic in the public record for a long time, HG — I thought you might appreciate this
A super holiday gift! Thanks for that suggestion!
Me and countless others, Rascal. Love the graphic, BTW.
I was in a software demo today with about 40 people. I had my laptop open, got a note from Rascal and went to take a look at the potential post. I almost spit my coffee all over and ended up coughing while trying not to laugh.
Worth every second of my short-lived embarrassment.
“Hit the road, Jack, and don’t you come back no more….”
Could it be the artist’s father whom, I’m sure, he loves dearly in spite of all.
Could it be the artist’s father whom, I’m sure, he loves dearly in spite of all.
Not all fathers are lovable. I don’t think that’s a universal thing. Just throwing that out there…
Freo: That was my exact thought when I saw that tweet.
goboywonder: It doesn’t matter, and that’s not the point.
Canada…Amazon!
this is the latest ranking for ♫ Christmas From The Heart ♫ from amazon – canada!
Christmas from the Heart ~ David Archuleta (Artist)
Release Date: Oct 13 2009
Available for Pre-order
Price: CDN$ 11.99
==============================================
♫ Bestsellers in Music, Any Category > Music ♫
#10. Ranking has gone up in the past 24 hours, 2 days in the top 100
==============================================
Hot New Releases in Music, Any Category > Music
#9
==============================================
Movers & Shakers in Music, Any Category > Music
#1
==============================================
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/bestsellers/music/ref=pd_ms_m_mte
Latest ranking for ♫ Christmas From The Heart ♫ from amazon – usa!
as of 1800 p.m. et…………………..
Bestsellers in Music –♫ #80 in overall music bestsellers ♫ ——– woo hoo!!
====================================
♫ Bestsellers in Holiday Music ♫
#3 [overall]
#3 hot new releases
#5 most gifted
#4 most wished for
====================================
Bestsellers in Opera & Vocal
#1 [overall]
#1 hot new releases
#2 most gifted [right behind groban!!!]
#1 most wished for [yayayayayay] !!!
====================================
Bestsellers in Music, Miscellaneous
#4 — Ranking has gone up in the past 24 hours, 37 days in the top 100
Hot New Releases in Music, Miscellaneous
#4
Most Wished For in Music, Miscellaneous
#12
Most Most Gifted in Music, Miscellaneous
#25
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002LLDT9U?tag=pauplathemuss-20&creative=373489&camp=211189&link_code=as3&creativeASIN=B002LLDT9U
Freo: That was my exact thought when I saw that tweet.
You know, I totally forgot to read between the tweet on that one. ha!
I’m not sure if that’s what David meant by that Tweet, but it’s a nice fantasy.
When I first saw the ass, I knew immediately who was behind it.
For those who don’t know me….I was just kidding.
Ooh! Ooh! I wanna play!
Not quite yet an AARPie, but I’ve always loved games!
But wow, I didn’t know a simple game of WITAITR would be so hard…
Can I buy a vowel?
John-Donvan…tweets about David..
http://celebritytwitter.com/twitter/John-Donvan
jello: ROFLOL
I hope David doesn’t read this. I know for a fact that he loves his father dearly.
Sweet and to the point.
We call’em Slick Willies here in Arkansas (for obvious reasons). They make you scrunch up your nose when mentioned.
I hadn’t heard about that last one. Sad, Bad.
tidwell535 #23 – you took the words right out of my mouth.
I don’t think the point is whether the father is just or right or even lovable, the point is he is his father. David has never to my knowledge publicly denounced or comdemned his dad. In fact, he seemed somewhat annoyed when TMZ came up with its stories. How can it be ok for his fans to attack someone so close to him. I don’t get it.
Poppa seems to run roughshod over his family. It’s hard to have sympathy.
Now I’m thinking, though, that David would probably hate this….he’s in a tough spot I think
goboywonder#25 – I am so glad that you agree with me. This isn’t fair to David at all. This is his father that this is talking about, and he is human, just as we are and when we can say that we have never done anything stupid or dumb at sometime in our life, than maybe we can judge others, but as far as I know there is no one on this earth who is perfect and has never made a mistake or many mistakes for that matter. David doesn’t deserve this. He is an amazing young man that has graced us with his soul and his talent and here is something that will for sure hurt him if he ever reads it.
pabuckie @26 — Thank you for sticking up for me and David!!!!
LittleM — If you ask me I think his “poppa” has actually been very low key especially during the summer tour. You don’t see him at anything or hear his name, and as David said when he was interviewed after idol, his dad has always been nothing but supportive of him and his dream.
goboywonder, “I don’t think the point is whether the father is just or right or even lovable, the point is he is his father. David has never to my knowledge publicly denounced or condemned his dad. In fact, he seemed somewhat annoyed when TMZ came up with its stories. How can it be ok for his fans to attack someone so close to him. I don’t get it.”
I agree 100% I don’t get it, either.
And “try and make light of them”? Sorry, don’t see the humour at all. Or adherence to site guidelines. Sad.
Just want to add that a big part of loving David for me was seeing how kind spirited, genuine and humble he is. David doesn’t have a mean word to say about anyone. He just won the Donovan Award and it wasn’t because of his singing. I just feel David would be so offended and hurt if he saw this and it goes against everything he represents and everything we love about him.
well, tidwell, I wish poppa had kept his name out of the album promo and credits. His past indiscretions will be reported in every review, and that I think is sad and not fair to David. I think this is a valid criticism.
But I do now feel that the post in general was somewhat over the top. I don’t think David would like this. He’s got of decisions to make in the next couple of years, huge decisions. Not sure this sort of thing helps…idk….It’s a quandry :-\
tidwell53s,
I appreciate your empathy for David in this, but it needs to be made clear that we are not, in fact, talking about David’s father but about his manager. That they are one in the same is an unfortunate complication that should not otherwise prohibit a site that covers all aspects of David’s career from discussing his management simply because of this complication. It certainly makes it more difficult (and indeed we have, until now, avoided this topic altogether for just that reason), but the crap is now piling too high for it to be avoided any longer.
Ouch. I am with Goboywonder on this. None of us have perfect families, but ultimately hopefully we figure out how to take the best and learn from the rest. Being played out in the public arena has to be tough for anyone, much less a young man verging on adulthood, figuring out how to cope with all life has thrown his way. Criticism of family is too close to home for me.
raelovingangels,
We posted simultaneously, so please read my previous comment. The issues here are about the compromising influences being heaped on the artist by his management. If this were about family alone, it would not be fodder for analysis here.
If any other entertainer – young, wholesome, extremely talented – had their manager’s name in the description of their forthcoming Christmas Album – after having been involved in indiscretions that mar the reputation of the entertainer, well, it wouldn’t happen.
How could that manager even consider placing himself front and center because he contributed to one of the songs. I suspect that much more talented, influential songwriters were involved in the making of the CD. Where are their names? Is Kurt Bestor’s name in the description? Why does this manager need to ride the coat tails of this young artist and open him to potential criticism?
It didn’t influence my ordering of the CD, but when I read that description, it made me just a little squeamish.
First of all, I finally get it. Rascal can write whatever he wants, use the image of an ass on a site devoted to David, and insult David’s father on a site that could possibly be visited by David or his people. This tasteless piece of trash should never been allowed on a site that claims to take the “high road” in all matters concerning David Archuleta. As per the rules of decorum of TDC, has David authorized anyone here to insult and demean his father. Are TPTB in a Rascal-induced trance? This article is a mean spirited ego trip written by someone who should know better, and allowed to appear by those who definitely should know better.
I do not agree at all with you rascal. Have you asked his “manager” about all of this in person and gotten the first hand account of what happened? Or do you just want to believe what the media has said? I live in Utah and the media here was totally on his side and his attorney was interviewed and said the truth would all come out eventually about all the circumstances. Family to David is so precious as he has talked about in his blogs and vlogs and twitters. He would be devastated by all of this and I for one who have loved this site fromt the first time I came upon it, am done. The foul language is so not David and you know it.
Yes Rascal. I do see the distinction and it certainly makes sense that if you put yourself out there in the public eye, by serving as the business manager of the most promising up and coming young artist, you should make certain choices to ensure the artist’s interest comes first without unnecessary baggage. I happen to believe as we all grow and mature, we figure out how to take from the best & leave the rest and in time, I would expect changes will come. However, even so, this still hits too close to home for me.
Rascal #34, the “crap” is what you are full of. This is David’s father, period. Whatever “job” he may have is completely beside the point.. You’re taking an end run around the rules here., and you know it.
I think it is a matter of tone. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with critical analysis of management decisions and strategy. Rascal, out of curiosity, why did you choose such a different approach this time? I like your in-depth analyses…
bliss: We had 37 emails this afternoon to discuss whether to post this or not. It was unanimous to do so.
“Unanimous to do so!!!!” WHY in heavens name would you post something that would so hurt the one person we love so dearly? Ask yourself, would David have said “yes” to post this? I think not. He is without guile and you know it. Yes, there was a huge mistake made according to the media, but to talk about it in such a crude manner is beyond me. Foul language and David do not go together ever.
In my opinion, the harm from thiS outweighs the value and it should be pulled. I must compliment you on your graphics however, which are always witty.
No foul language at all
ass:
noun
1. a long-eared, slow, patient, sure-footed domesticated mammal, Equus asinus, related to the horse, used chiefly as a beast of burden.
2. any wild species of the genus Equus, as the onager.
3. a stupid, foolish, or stubborn person.
Origin:
bef. 1000; ME asse, OE assa, prob. hypocoristic form based on OIr asan < L asinus; akin to Gk ónos ass
Do you know where David is as we speak? At the ASCEND Alliance charity event!!! Yes, being charitable as we all should be and never hurtful in any way.
tidwell53s – I was just going to post where David was too! We think alike. Thanks and I agree with you.
marlie7 – David is a young LDS man who loves his religion and that word is considered foul to him and all other of the LDS faith and we should respect him and his beliefs. So rationalize all you want, but this should for sure be pulled immediately.
I am going to a meet and greet with Brooke White tomorrow at Borders in Murray, and I am sure if I asked her about this, being LDS herself, she would agree. I hurt so much for David right now and yes, I am fuming and maybe making an idiot of myself, but I don’t like to see him hurt in any way.
I have only commented twice before, and I am sorry if no one likes what I have to say, but I know where David would stand with this one. I have to stand up for him.
Tidwell, Yes, David is very committed to his religion. It is a rock for him. Both his religion and music have helped him cope with situations caused by the person being discussed.
Oh My Heck Rascal
When I first read the title I was ABSOLUTELY certain you were writing about me – some EGO I have huh?
Then when I saw the picture of that much maligned beast, especially from the posterior view (and what an impressive posterior) ummmmmm….I knew it was meant to be caricature of me – huge EGO–well at least huge is the right word–and I am on a roll now!
Then I read what you wrote and you know, you do have a gift – and you prove once again that the pen is mightier than the sword.
And I went back to the picture and saw the pink background which reminded me of those Love Nugget-tini’s we had in Del Mar and I wondered if this edgy piece was fueled in part by those fabulous and heady Love Nugget-tini’s.
So, then I read the comments – the pros and cons and the strong reactions and I understand, I understand what everyone is saying.
So, in the end I can understand the motivation of agreement with those in the “pro” column but ultimately my reaction weighs in with a “wince” followed by a “flinch” with those in the “con” column.
I don’t think the sales will falter in any event for the Christmas CD. Nor will David’s performances on the album be judged negatively as a result.
Life ain’t fair.
I’m with Bliss on this. It is David’s father.
bliss,
The fact of him being David’s father does not absolve him of criticism for how he does his job as David’s manager. We discuss, criticize, admire, analyze, make fun of marketing, collaborators, producers, songwriters, stylists, and on and on. The job is not beside the point, it is the point.
tidwell53s,
Like it or not, this site does exist to please David. It exists to celebrate and analyze his work and career. Part of that analysis will at times involve criticism of the kind that no artist would “like,” but which is part of having a public.
Yes, it does. David loves his father and you know it and he would die if he saw this. I pray that he doesn’t and you will take it down before he might see it. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope consideration is given to the input of other trusted members of this site and this is pulled.
Rascal #34 The fact that David’s manager IS his father should make this in violation of the admin rules. You can’t separate the two. And, quite frankly, the “crap that has piled too high” is only in the eyes of the fans that make it so.
I have to agree with Bliss #38 entirely – and tidwell’s comments as well. None of us was there when it happened, so anyone who speculates is just a bad as the media in my opinion.
goboywonder #26 – said it best “How can it be ok for his fans to attack someone so close to him. I don’t get it.”
Rascal, If Jeff Archuleta had a part in writing a song for this CD, what is the problem with giving him credit on the CD for doing so? What atrocity did Jeff commit? We need to mind our own business here. Given what goes on in the music business, what Jeff did is the equivalent of jaywalking. This is the non issue of the century.
Marlie7, would David ever use the word “ass’ to describe anyone on this earth. If Rascal ever runs for office, you should be his campaign manager. Your post # 46 is spin doctoring of the worst order.
We weren’t allowed to discuss David’s dream. Now we have have a real nightmare to discuss. The fact is that if anyone else had written this article, it would have been rejected as inappropriate and offensive, and rightly so.
awestruck,
I appreciate your view of this. We have had numerous discussions over a long period of time, among a wide range of staffers and contributors, and this topic was studiously avoided as a result, until now. It was ultimately decided that professional relationships must be open to analysis, particularly when they repeatedly warrant criticism.
Further, rest assured that virtually nothing in this review is speculation.
Bliss,
It’s not about “credit.” Of course all contributors should get credit.
As old as I am, if this article were about my manager who is also my father, my heart would still hurt because the two are the same.
Rascal#53
I don’t like it, and I think you are barking up the wrong tree with this one. David most obviously wanted his dad involved with all of this as he has been there for him his whole life. I am sure he was devastated when this came out in the media. I mean I am sure David knew about it when it happened in January and for it to come out in June is pretty sad. I want to believe that the reason that it was all taken care of in January so quietly because it was not a big deal, and they never expected it to come out in the media in June in such an abrupt manner. I am sure it was just some dirt dug up because the media loves dirt and they certainly can’t find any to dig up concerning David. If we truly love David as we say we do, this will be dropped and never brought up again.
provides enough innuendo to promote speculation though.
so true, awestruck, so very true
My two cents here,
1. Fisrt at all i hope David realize he is in a very rude business, the criticisme i saw in the fansites about his manager are nothing in comparation to the non fansites and i think he can handle very well
2. I sure he knows now what is the perception many fans have of his manager, he knows that is in many cases is very negative, and let me tell ,this is not because the fans openly choose to hate him or dislike him, but because his own behavior (manager).
3.I don’t think that the fact David is and LDS member is the right justification to say he deserve the respect or his family values are priority for him, other religions have the same family base this is not about religious values but about the person and my respect for David like person is because his behavior agree with what he said and express.
4.But even if i respect his person , i can express my disagreement (in a respectful way)with his manager persistent wrong behavior,people need to understand that is not the media who did the news, it was him who wanted be in the public eye. Unfortunally when you are in the public eye is for the best and for the worst.
5. very sorry to hear that people think already all that little problem was the result of an police invention, the law is the law…what people thinking?
Spin it anyway you like, this post has absolutely nothing to do with concern for David or his career, imo … it reads like a tantrum and, funnily enough, provides its own answer to the rhetorical question posed.
Peace be with you.
TOfan, AMEN!!!!!!!!!!
How ironic!!! I was just reading the heading of your fansite, and it says “The David Chronicles – On the Artistry and Inspiration of David Archuleta” And you call this talking about the artistry and inspiration of David. Think not!!!!!
TOfan,
I am personally delighted that you were the first to articulate that observation. Bravo!
TOfan – you are right. I usually avoid getting sucked into this kind of debate as it accompishes nothing except to give me a headache.
The premise of this article is that David’s career has and still is being hurt by his father. Am I missing something? What’s wrong with David’s career? In a little over a year, he’s had a successful CD, a mega-selling single, has become the most dynamic live performer in the Business, has toured the US and Asia to rave reviews, and cannot go jogging without getting mobbed by worshipping fans. He wins awards on a daily basis, and his upcoming Xmas CD is selling so fast in pre-order that Amazon is limiting the quantities people can order.
Jeff, please manage my life exactly the way you’re managing David’s.
There is “analysis” and there is “criticism” but what we have here most closely resembles a tantrum.
Really unattractive and totally unDavidlike.
I saw take it down before it find its way to him.
Jinx TOfan – didnt see your bit before I posted mine.
blisskasdan – If Jeff Archuleta had a part in writing a song for this CD, what is the problem with giving him credit on the CD for doing so?
you right i don’t see the problem , but i don’t see the need either to do that right now, i mean it take my time to order when i saw this, and my point was: at least said the name of the others writers!. I’m sure all of them have talent( manager include , his talent is not my point here), but this was a dejavu for me…someone want to steal the show again…next step? go out to said here and there ‘I’m the genious who made this , David? he only sing’. Is like that i see the things right now , and i tell you, last year i defended this person because i believed he was a serious person, but with the time…well all my apreciation is gone, because his need of fame, recognizion,vanity and almost inexistent discretion
Yikes! How did this cross the threshold of decency without getting caught?
I understand the message and I even agree. Unfortunately Davids manager and father are one and the same and there isn’t a darn thing any one of us can do to change that. I think there is plenty of frustration on some of the decisions that have been made as far as David’s management. We are just fans. Loving adoring fans. That’s it. We can continue to follow him or not. We have a choice. But we should not take a chance of hurting him in any way EVER. Maybe this was Davids decision, maybe he doesn’t care, maybe he has forgiven his Dad we just don’t know. Again I agree with your message but I don’t think the way you demonstrated it is very nice and it my just make you look like an ass!
Two facts could be repeated here: one NONE of this is speculation. Two, the discussion is about management which is a legitimate topic. For me the tipping point was inclusion in the official CD announcement.
I would like to voice out my discomfort over this article for the simplest of reasons — I fail to see any productive output coming out of it.
TDC Admins – you know I love you guys. I also understand the motivation for this and I realize it is coming from a good place.
We may find it distasteful to see the father/manager’s name highlighted in the Christmas album. The article may also be right in all of its points — but I don’t see it as coming from a position of strength. Despite all the complaints we have stacked against JA, does it really warrant a full feature on a fansite dedicated to the artist and his artistry.
Knowing how David takes his Faith seriously, he will never put aside the commandment honor thy father and mother – despite the perceived lapses of judgment of his father/manager. [NOTE: To highlight how significant this commandment relative to the other 9 commandments - it is the only one that has a promise attached to it. OK, please don't take this as preaching - just an academic/clinical take on it.]
So I hope this time, being right takes a back seat and give way to consideration for those affected by the subject matter, especially the artist that we support.
I cant roll my eyes hard enough at this. Someone needs their bottle and a diaper change. Tantrums are not flattering.
GranFan . #73 “How did this cross the threshold of decency without getting caught”.
That’s a no -brainer. The person who decides what gets posted is the person who wrote the article. Welcome to China.
It seems no one read this paragraph:
Who is the one who, when approached about a charity event with the potential to raise over $50,000 — something that had been in the works for months and which was developed by, and on behalf of, all the tireless devotees who maintain and participate in online communities that contribute to powerful viral marketing — refused to even review a proposal, no less discuss it with the artist?
Unless I somehow missed David’s public comments relative to the issues broached here in Rascal’s opinion piece, I remain uncertain as to who here truly knows David’s mind on the matter of his father as parent and husband, his father as manager, or his father as Master of the Midvale Masseuse.
And so to those of you who presume to know these things and who seek to speak for David (ostensibly in his defense), pray tell us where you garage your mind-reading machine?
At work I now write MLD in the corner of my notes. It helps me remember to keep my too quick a mouth in check and to err on the side of kindness. Rascal and fellow writers that agreed to this article just “errored”. Please remove this article.
I think this post should get taken down before it makes its way to one of those nasty sites…
Bliss just wanted to say I always like reading your posts. You sound like such a nice person
Marlie, I have no problem with not wanting JA being visible in any way in regards to David’s career. I understand he has made blunders along the way. But it’s how the objection is presented. This seems so beneath the eloquent writers here at TDC.
I know he is one of his managers. But we are talking about David’s father. Even if David should come out and denounce his dad, which he has not done, people usually forgive and resolve their issues with family. They also usually do not forget any negatives said by others regarding family members. Family is very important to him as he has said, more times than he has even spoken of his faith. This is hurtful to a guy who never hurt anyone as far as we have heard, in his whole life. For the love of David, take it down.
“It was ultimately decided that professional relationships must be open to analysis, particularly when they repeatedly warrant criticism.”
I hardly call this “game” analysis….or honest criticism. IMO this does not fall under the guidlines of this site. My other question is why is presenting the shortfalls of David’s management in this manner okay? I can understand the desire to have the discussion but then why not present it in a mature and non-demeaning way. This just makes asses of us all.
As a fellow admin who also approved this article, first I would like to state that I sympathize with the feelings of those who do not agree with this article. But it is also important to have perspective: being a fan is simply not about avoiding hurting people’s (even David’s) feelings. It also means speaking out when one honestly feels (as Rascal, myself, and many others do) that something is terribly wrong.
There is no conceivable reason that I can think of, why it would benefit David to highlight Jeff (a center of scandal and controversy) in the publicity announcement that goes out to media outlets and music reviewers in describing the Christmas CD. Even if Jeff had a hand in the songwriting – it does not matter. The only conceivable reason is that Jeff is co-manager of David’s career currently, along with Azoff, and that a decision was made with disregard (ignorance at best) of how this would affect David.
Concern has been expressed about protecting David from discussion about his father. If that were true, then the best way to do this would have been not to include Jeff in the Christmas CD description. Precisely because Jeff was included, the father issue is revived for the next conceivable period of time. Reviewers, bloggers, YouTube hatemongers who are soulless and who love scandal will continue to make it a basis for scandalizing and deriding – not Jeff – but David.
If one thinks that ignoring this issue will mean that it goes away, I would argue that person is naive about the media and also does not understand that David is nowhere near as famous as he will be, when every aspect of his life will be considered newsworthy.
blisskasdan- Am I missing something?
well i guess, we are frustrated with the TEAM David(Azzof,Jeff,JIVe and sometimes even David) about somes decisions but the most memorable NEGATIVE AND HURTING points in David’s career until now are because his…manager .
hooked -But we should not take a chance of hurting him in any way EVER. Maybe this was Davids decision, maybe he doesn’t care
AHHH NOT! in what moment this turned again us?, express a concern, do a criticisme,express the frustration is not what gonna hurt david’s career after all we are just lovely fans, but their dicisions and his decisions surely can hurting it.
and be lovely and hard workers fand don’t gift to us privileges but don cut either the the rigth to disagree with him or them about some issues. You can love someone and have disagreements…actually is very normal.
they only come out at night…;)
…wonder if Praepos will now crawl out of the woodwork…or has he been banned for eternity?
David grew up in a house with a family and understands better than anyone his own relationship with all family members — he knows the strengths and weaknesses and complications. As his fan, I have to trust that he’ll make the choices he needs to make when he needs to make them. As his fan, I’ll support his career despite any personal misgivings about any of it — the manager, the label, etc. If David decides to make any changes, I’ll also support his career. Period.
This reads as a rant to me.
There are a few sites that would just LOVE to get a hold of this post. :\
Crying is the first form of baby talk. It is your baby�s only way of communicating to you, whether she is hungry, lonely, tired, wet, uncomfortable, too hot, too cold, or just generally frustrated. Though it may seem impossible initially, you will learn to a certain extent to differentiate between your baby�s different cries and decipher what it is he wants. In time, your baby will become more self-reliant and a better communicator.
I think We all know how to interpret when Rascal gets his balls handed to him. Perhaps a binky would have been better Rascal then this tantrum your having.
Ronald, “There is no conceivable reason that I can think of, why it would benefit David to highlight Jeff (a center of scandal and controversy) in the publicity announcement that goes out to media outlets and music reviewers in describing the Christmas CD. Even if Jeff had a hand in the songwriting – it does not matter. The only conceivable reason is that Jeff is co-manager of David’s career currently, along with Azoff, and that a decision was made with disregard (ignorance at best) of how this would affect David.”
Two wrongs do not make it right.
I have to add my voice to the growing number of nays over this post. After the past couple weeks of happiness and pride over David’s performances, along with the beautiful posts which followed, clicking this one open felt like a punch to the gut.
Unfortunately, the time to discuss the arrest incident is long gone. When it first occured and the need was overwhelming to discuss the incident, we were shushed into silence. Now that some healing has actually occured – it is like a fresh wound all over again. Its too much, and too late. That train has already left the station.
Like it or not, David cannot be divorced from his blood. He will always be Jeff’s first-born son. Even if his role as manager is being critiqued, it will hurt David if he reads it. Heck,this post also hurts me as a fan of David, and a fan of this site.
David’s relationship with his father/manager – is what it is and no amount of rock-throwing can change that fact. If journalists deign to ask questions about the incident as it relates to Jeff’s role as exe. producer or co-writer, we keep saying David is now grown so let him deal with this situation as he must in whatever manner HE chooses. Who are we to decide what’s best for him anyway? All we can do as fans is to show love,support, and respect from a distance in his business decisions.
Woah…how did TheNanny’s comment get through, and mine is awaiting moderation???
Ronald – I agree with you.
Once again, no one read THIS paragraph:
Who is the one who, when approached about a charity event with the potential to raise over $50,000 — something that had been in the works for months and which was developed by, and on behalf of, all the tireless devotees who maintain and participate in online communities that contribute to powerful viral marketing — refused to even review a proposal, no less discuss it with the artist?
Hurray, THENANNY#90 –Perfect analysis. By the way, David just went to the circus.
ronaldsf – From what I am reading from the commenters, it isn’t precisely the topic but the presentation of the topic that is at the heart of the objection.
And to go from “the discussion about JA is off limits” to this strong of a piece is a head-whipping, neck spraining exercise.
oh my heck!! step out for a moment and all hell breaks loose! As a former admin of this site and a person who is fairly well aquainted with the present admins, I can say to all of you out in cyber world….you don’t know rascal if you think this will ever come down or you will ever convince them that this post didn’t do exactly what it was intended to do…you are wasting your breath.
Rascal is a master wordsmith and a marketing man. He draws attention to products and sells them for a living…and draw attention he has. …. I’m with kizzi on this one…. I was sure he was taking about my ass at first….
LittleM – We don’t actually moderate…I’ll check and see where it is. You might have combination of words that got checked by the Askimet spam filter. BRB.
oops…I should clarify. Ronald I agree with your point of view. I think the eloquent way you discussed it is the right approach.
marlie7 — We all have read it, every time you have posted it but why should David be the one hurt over that. Just because there is resentment, this had to be done in such a crude manner.
David just twittered that he went to the circus. I guess he comes on TDC after all.
bliss- are you selling the crackerjacks or can I? You sell the beer.
ps. I love you.
tidwell53s: Maybe David wasn’t hurt by that, but Crush MS sure was. I suspect that David never got a chance to even hear about it.
perfect bliss, great analogy
((((happy))))) “I was sure he was taking about my ass at first….”, lol
maybe not, marlie7, but he still wouldn’t want to have what is happening tonight happen either. Let’s hope he doesn’t hear about it.
Bliss, BAHAHAHA!!!
there have only been veiled references…can someone explain the background of this charity event you are referring to?
Interesting how so many of you choose to cast aspersions on the author in lieu of debating the merits of his article. Of course, invective is the last refuge of an effete intellect.
goodbye TDC — I am done with this site. I love all the other things that have been written with such insight and belief in this young artist. I will miss reading them, but this has crossed the line of decency and I cannot be a part of it again. I have never felt so terrible in my life about anything. This is sooooooooooooooooo sad. David will never deserve anything like this. Neverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
joymus – David cannot be divorced from his blood. He will always be Jeff’s first-born son.
TBH i don’t think David’s relationship with his father is the point here i hope they have armony in their house …..If people demand take down the post because the writing style is hurting is Ok… but if people demand take down the post to avoid the express and negative opinion about the manager is different and not right. We talk about the incovenience for the manager to show out his name all over the place to soon, that’s is hurting for David’s career.
Again the talent of this people is not the point here but the almost inexistent discretion surely.
baobabs727- big words are often helpful when obfuscating the truth.
Rascal, I must say… you certainly deserve your moniker. This has certainly stirred up the hornets nest
blisskasdan . September 25, 2009 at 11:58 pm .
David just twittered that he went to the circus. I guess he comes on TDC after all.
Auch
Ha, ha, ah
Little M, Thanks. I used to think I was a really nice guy. That was before I got to know David. I’m kid stuff compared to David. David makes me look like Attila the Hun.
Happy, where were you tonight? Were Gary Lewis and the Playboys at Radio City? You’re right about Rascal. I realize that he is a master provocateur, and marketing maven( big deal, btw), but
to use David as a prop to further his egomaniacal agenda, and then offer some half fast rationale when he is exposed, is as transparent as it is desperate.
Happy– What “truth,” exactly, am I “obfuscating” here? Rascal’s posts are frequently replete with “big words,” so are we to assume that this entire website is but a monumental exercise in obfuscation?
Where is Jello?
Tibis – I know the point I want to make. I understand the difference between the two. My feeling is that even if you have to critique managerial aspect of David’s career. No amount of saying it as crassly as possible is going to change the relationship the way it now stands. DAVID and the other half of his management have to come to their own breaking point with his Dad career-wise – if it will come at all. How come the record company didnt raise a red flag at Jeff’s involvement in the deal or in co-writing credits?
Like I said before it hurts me as a fan to see the ridicule so prominently displayed especially after such a beautiful week of news. Objection to an artist’s career decisions is a fan’s right. It could have been handled differently that’s all I’m saying. Did I have to see a ginormous picture of an asses’s ass to get the point? Hell to the no!
“Reviewers, bloggers, YouTube hatemongers who are soulless and who love scandal will continue to make it a basis for scandalizing and deriding – not Jeff – but David.”
And this only adds to the fray Ronald.
How others – reviewers, bloggers, youtube hathemongers, etc… – will see this: “Oh look, even a dedicated fansite to David disses JA, ergo DA.”
Don’t tell me that very possible reality never crossed your mind.
I think Rascal’s post was harsh and provocative, but I also think he is expressing the frustration that a lot of the fanbase feels about David’s manager. Nobody wants to see David hurt, but not addressing the issue is not going to prevent that. Choosing to mix family and business means that he will have to deal with the critism that people have against his manager who also happens to be his father. If he wants to keep that relationship (of dadager), than he has to be able to handle the negatives, and it’s better that he knows how people, including much of his fanbase, feel about it.
baobabs727- I was referring to your use of the words “invective” and “effete.” I didn’t read the comments with a microscope, but I don’t recall “so many” comments using insulting or abusive language with regard to the author. I do recall “so many” commenters expressing disappointment or disagreement with the tone and/or the content of the post. And as far as “effete”…while indicating that you view the commenters as ineffective and weak, doesn’t effete also often connote decadence?…you are accusing the COMMENTERS of decadence? Your accusation seemed to come from left field, that’s all.
When planning a bday party or other event follow these simples rules
1. Pick a date.
2. Check that the guest of honor is ABLE AND WILLING to
ATTEND.
3. Send out invitations.
If you choose to do this in reverse order, chances are you will be the only a$$ standing in the room.
bliss- I’ve got to go to bed…. I missed Gary and the Playboys- The playboys don’t want me in the show anymore on account of my big ass……
#123 Love it!
I’m sorry, but last time I read this piece, I don’t remember a certain person’s name mentioned anywhere.
HOWEVER, the fact that we all jumped to the same conclusion that we knew who the “ASS” was in this post just goes to show that there really is consensus that a certain person has been behaving like an ASS.
So, why all the offense?
If David were reading this article, he’d be the most gracious and unassuming person he usually is and PRETEND that he doesn’t know who the subject of this post is.
We could have all pretended not to know who the subject was, and just throw around shade and innuendos, but then here is everybody NAMING it for all the world to see.
Although I believe that the points in Rascal’s post are valid, I do agree with Kizzi that I felt a little bit of whip lash in reading this post.
When the incident referenced in Round 2 occurred he was still his manager/father so wasn’t discussion of the incident at the time also valid?
That said I agree with Ronald that when I read the description of the David’s Christmas CD I wondered what purpose it served to highlight a certain writer.
David would love this video…I posted it on the last thread, but I think we need a breather and some laughs so here it is again!
Gita #121, “Nobody wants to see David hurt, but not addressing the issue is not going to prevent that. Choosing to mix family and business means that he will have to deal with the critism that people have against his manager who also happens to be his father. If he wants to keep that relationship (of dadager), than he has to be able to handle the negatives, and it’s better that he knows how people, including much of his fanbase, feel about it.”
A question to those who are in agreement with this article, could you honestly look into David’s eyes and justify this? Do you really not think this would be hurtful to him. Oh but that’s not the point. Surely he must understand that his fans care so much about him and his career that we must hurt him for his own good.
Is this supposed to bully his dad/manager out of his career/life. I say you have no such right. Who is making your family/career decisions for you?
Ronald #86, “If one thinks that ignoring this issue will mean that it goes away, I would argue that person is naive about the media and also does not understand that David is nowhere near as famous as he will be, when every aspect of his life will be considered newsworthy.”
Yeah, so lets fan the flames before everyone else.
Geez, with fans like this who needs TMZ.
Be cause we very well know who he is talking about. You dont need to read between the lines to know that…
A question to those who are in agreement with this article, could you honestly look into David’s eyes and justify this? Do you really not think this would be hurtful to him. Oh but that’s not the point. Surely he must understand that his fans care so much about him and his career that we must hurt him for his own good.
Like I said, David would totally do the clueless act and question who the “ASS” was in the article. If he honestly didn’t think a certain person was being one, he’d let this slide off his shoulder.
Be cause we very well know who he is talking about. You dont need to read between the lines to know that…
And the fact that we all know who he is talking about is part of the problem with a certain person’s behavior.
surprised by all of this……disappointed……
HG, it did not take much “jumping” to see who the topic of this article is. What good would pretending and inuendo be? Even without the naming , it is here for everone to see, all in the name of what? Concern? Love? Support? Entertainment? ha.
HG #131, “Like I said, David would totally do the clueless act and question who the “ASS” was in the article. If he honestly didn’t think a certain person was being one, he’d let this slide off his shoulder.”
Yes, he might act like that but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt him and it still doesn’t make this right. And on that note I think I have exceeded my 2 cents.
dear rascal,
i know i’m an ass, but you’re the biggest ass of ALL TIME.
sincerely,
kayne
Goboywonder- well said.
Doing right is more important than being right.
Refnaf#134, I would say all in the name of snark. So, this post wasn’t a polite article. Maybe even mean-spirited. So what?
What I’m not getting is why everyone is getting their undies in a bunch over this. (Excuse the crudity.)
I’m sorry, but as David’s fans, are we supporting him, and only him, or are we going to widen our so-called love and support to others just because they happen to be related?
I love Michael Jackson, but that certainly doesn’t mean I’m opening up my arms to embrace Joe Jackson. It certainly doesn’t stop fans from proclaiming their love for MJ while they express their vehement hate for his dad (and I see that a lot). And, no, this isn’t about how a son feels about his relatives. It’s about calling out certain people on their behavior.
So far, David is handling everything well. I have a feeling he knows how to glide through the negativity and deflect it.
One thing I’ve found very frustrating with this fanbase is this tacit acceptance that everything must be all positivity all the time.
We can’t all wax poetic about David’s otherworldly voice all the time. I’d love to put out various versions of “A Voice in the Musical Wilderness,” but you know what, we’re imperfect people living in an imperfect world, and David is surrounded by imperfect people (ha! I still can’t accept that he himself is “imperfect”). It is what it is, and I’m kind of glad TDC can offer something as deeply moving as “Are We There Yet?” and as completely opposite with this “Let’s Play the Game” post. Where else in ArchuWorld would we even get such diversity of opinions?
It’s not the message, it’s the delivery.
I djafan am not in agreement with this article…
I consider TDC my home as a David “FAN” and this doesn’t feel right in my gut, my heart,and my soul and the attempt to justify feels empty. I love David and this takes away from all the good this site has been.
Goboywonder…. I am in agreement with all of your points.
SAD DAY…
Although I’m not crazy about the manner in which this subject was presented, I feel strongly about the ills of the manager/father. Mainly, that HE needs to assume RESPONSIBILITY for whatever mistakes/jugdement errors he makes. Knowing that this could affect how some (even if it were just one) people view his client/son. Believe me, there were alot of negative comments made in my immediate circle about this issue and YES, it did reflect badly on David. If this was a manager in a high profile profession (politics?), the manager would have been forced to resign. The manager would have been shown more respect if he had done so back in January (not in June or whenever the “…crap is now piling too high”). Besides, are there not clauses in contracts about unprofessional behavior? Seems to me that there are in most professions.
My husbands does not think very highly of his manager/father. He recently asked me if David had completed his high school education. I told him I didn’t think he had – trying to explain how busy he has been. He became belligerent, saying “where are these people who should be looking out for what’s best for David. You know he’s being treated just like Elvis and you know what happened to him.” This upset me but I know he was right. He was speaking as a father and this is what fathers should do. Especially if they value their children as my husband does. Sorry for the rant but ALL IMHO.
As a site that celebrates David’s artistry , where is the need for mean spiritness? My undies are certainly not in a bunch, just stating my opinion which is something I am entitled to do, no? I am no condoning “love and Support” for any one other than David, who has both from me, unconditionally. Discussion on David’s management is not the same as calling someone out on their “behavior”. That sounds like judgement to me. Your frustration at David’s fanbase is something that does not have much to do with David IMO>\
Amen bebe!
David has not mentioned the word “dad” since the scandal broke. We don’t know what the relationship is between David & his father, other than Jeff is still a manager in David’s organization. David has kept their current father/son relationship private and out of the limelight. I choose to follow David’s lead in that regard. David will not read this post, but he will surely hear about it.
No prayer for David here tonight. It would be hypocritical. I’m sorry David. I am very disappointed and sad.
#140 right. there are better ways to go about approaching and discussing the topic than the way it was presented.
and just because we dont want to publicly slam management, doesnt mean we embrace it.
Now the sadness deepens….no prayer.
Happy, love you too
Nobody in the history of the performing arts has inspired such passion
and overseeing of the excruciating minutia of every aspect of their existence like David. No one gave a rat’s tuchis about the way Col. Parker managed Elvis, and he made Jeff Archuleta seem like Ghandi. Parker turned Elvis into his personal cash cow, forcing him into making all of those inane movies like “Clam Bake” , “Girls Girls Girls” and other cinematic masterpieces, when Elvis could have become the next James Dean. Despite the horrendous management, Elvis was the biggest star of the 20h century.
Let us not forget that David is the best singer on the face of the earth, and is the most likable and lovable person in modern memory. Nothing, not even the worst possible management, will keep David from achieving his goal to sing and to enhance the lives of all who are open to him. Someone once said that “nothing is as unstoppable as an idea whose time has come” This is David’s time. He can’t be stopped.
Sorry, SF, that you will not grace us with your prayer for David. It actually seems he needs it more than ever.
I do, however, get the feeling that David has heard many things said about his father. If he can survive Jimmy Kimmel’s late night skit that came out around the time of the scandal, I think he’ll survive this one.
On that note, g’nite all!
bliss…. “standing ovation”
HG please stop speaking for David, what David would do think say feel etc. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Don’t care for this approach at all. Criticism and analysis yes just not this way.
Smanda, none of us do, really. I’m only expressing what I think he might be feeling, as everyone else here is doing.
And don’t tell me what to do and not do in my comments, okay?
Bliss #147
Bravo! With David’s kind of talent, nothing, least of all something like this can come in the way of reaching his potential.
So sad.
Posting a snarky article that references David’s father/manager in a negative way has gotten more irate discussion here than the arrest itself got on Soul David. That makes me wonder what “halo” Jeff gets to wear by virtue of him being David’s father.
HG allowed the discussion to progress on her site. In hindsight, and this is my opinion, not that of all the admins, we probably should have, too. But at the time, we were also thinking of David, and it looked like the situation was taking care of itself.
But recently, especially with the CD blurb, and our recent experience with the event, it looks like the “situation” is inserting himself right back in the limelight.
Some of you say that is because he is David’s father…well, I don’t remember Justin Timberlake’s mother/manager getting credits in his CD blurbs, and I’ve never seen Taylor Swift’s producer/father mentioned prominently in her CD blurbs. They have supported their children’s careers, not horned in on their fame.
I changed my mind. HG, you are right. David needs it, but some of us need it more, at least I do. David is out & about in Murray having a great time!
Good night & for David…
Dear lord,
Please take care of David.
Watch over him, protect him from all harm.
Cloak him with your love and give him the strength to endure all that is thrown in his path.
Give David the courage and guidance to say no to those who ask for more than he can reasonably give.
Surround David with loving and supportive people who love him unconditionally as we, his devoted Archangels do.
Separate David from those who have agendas other than for his well being.
Give him rest when he feels weary.
Give him stamina to sustain his hectic pace.
Give him assurance when he feels doubt.
Give him joy when he feels sad and never allow David to feel alone or lonely.
GIVE US THE WISDOM TO ALWAYS DO RIGHT BY DAVID.
OPEN OUR EYES AND HELP US IN THE WAY WE SUPPORT DAVID SO THAT IT’S ALWAYS IN HIS BEST INTERESTS.
Cloak him always in your protective arms during this time on his journey.
Keep David and and his voice healthy and strong as he fulfills his Destiny which was written in his Book of Life before he was born.
Though we may be unworthy Lord, we humbly pray. Amen
David, hope you have a good night’s sleep with sweet & happy dreams. Thank you for all you do and for who you are. Keep with you all our love, prayers and warm thoughts!
Contigo siempre en la distancia, con amor!
Smanda #150, Thank You.
amen SF
SF, prayer is always in order, even if it has to be done silently, thank you.
That makes me wonder what “halo” Jeff gets to wear by virtue of him being David’s father.
Thank you, Marlie, for saying this. I’m sick of the “defending Jeff” commenting, masquerading as “defending David.” They are NOT one and the same, and if David’s fans don’t seem to know this, no wonder a certain person has been insinuating himself in his son’s career.
I will try again…can someone explain the specifics of this planned “event” and why non-participation was so offensive?
Thank you, HG for “getting” this whole discussion.
I believe Liz will be explaining the event.
djafan, #149, you’re too kind.
This too will pass. Watch how David makes that happen.
Tidwell53s, goboywonder, djafan, bebereader, Tofan, Bliss, Ram, Smanda, Refnaf, SF and Raelovingangels and anyone else I forgot…thank you all for your comments.
HG…
I’m sick of the “defending Jeff” commenting, masquerading as “defending David.” They are NOT one and the same, and if David’s fans don’t seem to know this,
I have not read one comment defending Jeff, and I for one know they are not one and the same, as I’m sure his fans here do to.
Like bebe said, “Doing right is more important than being right.”
not only here but in life….just ask David.
Thanks, SF, for posting your prayer. Feel free to agree to disagree, whatever (or even try and tell me to “stop speaking” for whomever and whenever – yeah, right! Try and silence me!), but we need SF’s nightly prayer!
Little M # 160, you should go to the website Souldavid.wordpress.com and read some of comments there. I think it will answer a lot of your questions.
I fully support Rascal and the TDC admin in posting this article. They are the ones who had the will and impetus to start this site. They are the ones who sacrifice their personal time to maintain it 24/7. They are the ones who generously draw from their personal experiences to give us provocative, insightful, well written, informative features that are a refreshing contrast to the ‘good things only’ mentality that monopolizes many other of David’s fan sites. And they are the ones who are brave enough and have the conviction to write what they believe in, knowing full well that a storm of objection and often insult will meet them.
If you don’t agree with what is written here, it’s easy enough not to read it. If you feel as strongly about David as those here at TDC, you can easily start your own blog and only read things that make you happy. I see that some of those who are outraged by this article, rather than post a critical, constructive response, feel it’s acceptable to be insulting and call the author names. I’d say you should think twice about reprimands or editing what others have chosen to write about in their own ‘house’ while at the same time you are able to come into this ‘house’ and are able to freely express your opinion.
To all the posters who think David will be hurt by this, I’d ask if you really think David reads here or any of the thousands of web, print and television pieces that mention him. He is not that vain. He’s smart enough to accept all the misinformation, the fabrications, the unfortunate truths, good and bad, as part of the industry that he’s stepped into.
amen dja! I’m not defending jeff. I do not like his name being on the cd, any more than any one else, but I am not into attacking him either. He wears no halo as far as i am concerned. It is what it is. He is David’s father and manager. He has been involved in David’s career since day one. Critism in a constructive manner is one thing, this is just… crap.
lotus_b… are you a fan of David?
Well, djafan, I don’t think it’s very kind to question whether I am a fan of David’s simply because I may disagree with your point of view. How would it feel if I asked you the same question?
Noone is defending him… but there are ways of being tactful about certain things. This, however is not and example… bad form.
Thank you, Lotus, for your thoughts on the matter. From one FAN to ANOTHER.
Very inclusive HG!
hi lotus_b…
If you read up bit a stated I am a “fan” and if you read my screen name, it’s there. I was just curious because of your statement, I wasn’t being derogatory. I appreciate the time and effort of adm, and their tremendous talent, but without us fans this site would not exist, they cannot debate themselves, or they could if they’d want to. I have no problem with debate, criticism, and analysis this just doesn’t pass the “sniff test” IMO.
You know, really, this is a Short Take, not a feature. For those who are not happy about this post, you can make the whole thing go away by continuing the regular discussions in the feature area. Short Takes come and go. Features stay up for days.
Well, Refnaf, I just wanted to make sure Lotus didn’t think I was questioning her fan status.
Aren’t we all fans? Doesn’t that go without saying?
Hell, can we get honest here?!?!
We’re going on TWO FULL YEARS, and we’re still here devoted to all things David!
We’re all fans (including Rascal!).
Rascal, I love your writing and have long been a great admirer of your eloquence but this is just wrong on too many levels. Calling someone an ass on a public forum is crass and indecorous and has resulted in a backlash reminiscent of days past. Only this time, it is coming from within, from regular, loyal posters.
TDC may be accused of many things in the Archuleta fan world, but being all positivity is not one of them. This is not the Hallmark Channel for David fans. We can and are often fearless and opinionated but we have generally done so in a respectful manner. In a fan site frequented mostly by seasoned adults, it becomes all the more important to exercise a modicum of discretion; to take the high road. It is really, the only decent thing to do. After 2 years of following David, have we not learned that simple but beautiful truth?
I am no fan of Jeff Archuleta but the way this has been handled not only does not pass the sniff test, it stinks to high heaven.
#178 Im pretty sure my cat’s litter box smells better.
To Goboywonder #92, and others: I don’t think that there are people who will only now form a bad opinion about Jeff because TDC now has an article.
It seems that one opposing view out there is the following: Jeff is David’s father, and so fans should avoid criticizing him. It does not matter whether Rascal’s observations were limited to Jeff’s professional (in)capacity – criticism of Jeff, not only in general, but regarding his specific involvement in co-managing David’s career, is to be discouraged (and deleted, as some are suggesting) on TDC.
I can understand why some would have this belief – after all, as David’s fans we come to TDC to savor David’s artistry and inner (and outer) beauty. We prefer not to think of the ugliness.
But where does this reasoning lead? This is an argument that there should be no criticism (which sometimes necessarily includes sharp criticism) by fans, and no limitations, on what Jeff does to promote – or possibly undermine – David’s career. This is an argument that one-half of David’s management should not only have contractual power over the present course of David’s career – but also have parental immunity in this regard.
I’m sorry, but David is not a child anymore. He is a grown young man. No one should enjoy a generalized social sanction to have unfettered control over David’s – or anyone’s – career. So when would we be “permitted” to treat Jeff as if David were his co-equal, open to criticism, including sharp criticism? When David is 26? Or 45?
TMZ and the like are already slamming David’s dad in order to scandalize David (and will do so more now because Jeff is now specially featured on the upcoming album). The best way stop feeding the rumor mill would be to end the spectacle of a father legally co-managing his adult son’s career. (This is not necessarily complete separation – David could always, if he chose to, consult Jeff on any and all questions.)
However, others would argue that the best road is to refrain from criticism. But do we think that TMZ or the National Enquirer will not talk about Jeff (or be less biting in their coverage) because saints at TDC say that doing so is a no-no? I think not.
David already knows that we, his devoted fans, have his back. It’s the big, bad world out there that needs to be won over by his beauty and talent. And David needs the best producers, musicians, promoters — and managers — who will best advance his career. David gives it his all, and he deserves nothing less.
Bottom line, this issue is “personal” for Rascal. Why else drudge up the past to make your case?
BTW, does anyone know if Jeff actually wrote or had a significant input into the writing of the song? Has anyone heard the song? I’m sure David sang the song beautifully. For all anyone knows, Jeff is a great songwriter.
LotusB, with all due respect, the founding fathers and mothers of this site are not the only ones who are, as you put it ” brave enough and have the conviction to write what they believe in….
Many folks have been doing just that since day 1. I also believe that the criteria for appropriateness of a given article or post should be the same whether one works on the site or comes by periodically. Being an “insider” does not give one the right to disrespect David or his loved ones. That is what occurred tonight. Rascal’s article had no business on this site His article was neither artistic or inspiring, which is what this site claims to be about.
djafan, I appreciate your comments. If you read my original response #171, you’ll see that I never questioned whether you were a fan of David’s. Having read many of your past posts, I know you are.
My point was that everyone has their opinion of what goes on in Archuworld, and sometimes it’s not going to be favorable. I don’t think expressing an unpopular opinion means that any of us, TDC admin included, are a non fan, a bad fan or especially a bad person. I was reacting to some of the posters who were getting personal and insulting. I don’t think it’s right.
I’ll have to disagree with you on your comment that this site would not exist without the fans. This site would only cease to exist without David. The TDC mods can and would certainly debate amongst themselves without us. This is their vehicle to express themselves about a wonderful subject called ‘David Archuleta’. The discussion at TDC will go on for as long as David graces the public with his talent and personality, whether there is one person or a billion who is paying attention to it.
Ronald #180, “TMZ and the like are already slamming David’s dad in order to scandalize David (and will do so more now because Jeff is now specially featured on the upcoming album). The best way stop feeding the rumor mill would be to end the spectacle of a father legally co-managing his adult son’s career. (Mind you, this is not necessarily complete separation – for example, David could still consult Jeff on any and all questions.)
In ALL of the articles I have seen concerning David’s Christmas album so far, this is the only one that have had something negative to say about Jeff Archuleta.
“David already knows that we, his devoted fans, have his back.”
If this is having David’s back then he should be very afraid.
Well, I now feel like I have stumbled onto a TMZ site rather than a David Archuleta fansite. I find it very discouaging that this article is being rationalized by some as being something that is nothing short of undermining David. Can’t we leave that up to TMZ and those who don’t want him to succeed. I don’t think that our opinions need to be hidden on this difficult issue, but to be presented this way is to mock David.
In addition, way to stir the media pot up.
lotus_b…
I’m sorry if I misinterpreted your comment and questioned your being a fan.
I hope your right that this site would continue. Just a while back we were all commenting on the demise of snarky’s because of the adm changes and loss of posters. For instance here, I believe Happy is no longer a part of adm and I for one thought she was a great contributor with great objectivity as one.
This is their vehicle to express themselves about a wonderful subject called “David Archuleta”.
My point exactly… this doesn’t feel like it, this does nothing to express the wonderful “David Archuleta” IMO.
In ALL of the articles I have seen concerning David’s Christmas album so far, this is the only one that have had something negative to say about Jeff Archuleta.
Actually, this is the only article that has been blatant in its negativity concerning Jeff’s involvement. If you’ve been paying attention, you might have heard some quiet rumbles and hush tones in which many fans have been discussing the issue. The only difference is this article SCREAMS OUT LOUD what some other fans have been whispering about.
Considering that this present discussion is less about what the perceived problems might be and more about the form in which Rascal chose to express these concerns, there’s a reason most people discuss this in hush tones.
Ronaldsf#180:
You said “This is an argument that there should be no limitations, and no criticism..”
Nobody said that there shouldn’t be criticism here. But, I don’t see what good will come of it, in this case, except satisfaction on the part of the person expressing it.
And that is the point…
It seems that personal satisfaction is more important than respect.
HG, I was addressing Ronald’s state that “TMZ and the likes are already slamming David’s Dad…” Are there media articles slamming David or Jeff for that matter about the Christmas album?
Again, the up roar in NOT about praising David’s dad/manage or trying to keep the issue on the down low, but it’s about the way it has been presented. Also, I don’t like having to look at that picture everytime I refresh. Yeah, yeah, I know, go somewhere else.
Bliss..hi there. I guess I’ve accepted that the criteria for what is appropriate, whether it’s a posted article or comment isn’t always consistent. Sure it’s not perfect, but I believe the folks here are doing the best they can. This site exists because of their efforts, so I’m willing to accept how they manage things. If I get to the point when I don’t, then I just won’t visit here.
All the power to you in protesting against the leeway that you think has been granted to Rascal in the writing of his latest. But I guess there is no judge or jury to appeal to here. This is an internet blog, not a democracy.
I would just remind people that the specific actions criticized in the article do not come off as simply bumbling and innocent mistakes, and that the most important question of this thread is the wisdom of some of Jeff’s actions and whether they favor David’s career.
Is it too late to nominate Rascal for the John Donvan role model award?
That is for you, LittleM # 118….btw, how come my name seems to come up whenever there is a controversy? Haha
Of course, me being the self-centered ASS that I am…when I first saw ‘the game’ of Rascal’s I thought the asses we would be outing were fellow posters here at TDC (in light of recent moderation events both here and in chat).
Needless to say, selfishly I was relieved. Now who’s the ass?
lotus_b, “This is an internet blog, not a democracy.”
Actually it’s the Borg hive and resistance is futile.
Hmmm, I thought I came hear to read “The David Chronicles”. I was surprised to see that I somehow must have accidentally googled TMZ. But no, I check again and this is the real thing, “The David Chronicles”, the home of people with deep sensibilities and eloquent speech. The home of people that can make me smile and cry and touch my heart and soul with their heartfelt and beautiful words, kind of like David’s voice and music.
Since when are we, his fans, people who don’t care if we hurt David. Do we justify it by saying it is for his own good or that he can handle it or needs to learn how to handle it? David has dealt with hard things and will continue to have to do so and obviously it is not always an easy situation. He is doing the best that he knows how to at this particular time in his life. We have no idea what his family situation is except that we know he loves them. I would be embarrassed to meet him and have him know that I had condoned anything like this. It doesn’t pass that famous “smell” test. It just stinks!
I happen to be a fan of Rascal and not of Jeff so this really makes me feel just. . . sad.
yay, Jello! I knew you would lighten things up!
On that note I’m going to bed…nite all
here not hear, note to self, proof read before you hit that submit button.
Thank you CB…
Since when are we, his fans, people who don’t care if we hurt David. Do we justify it by saying it is for his own good or that he can handle it or needs to learn how to handle it? David has dealt with hard things and will continue to have to do so and obviously it is not always an easy situation. He is doing the best that he knows how to at this particular time in his life. We have no idea what his family situation is except that we know he loves them. I would be embarrassed to meet him and have him know that I had condoned anything like this.
and “resistance is futile.”
Goyboywonder: Unfortunately, this statement of yours is the only one I can say I 100% agree with here on this ‘Short Take’.
Strangely enough, for someone who cannot laugh at herself…..I found this game of Rascal’s kinda humorous. Probably b/c I have been following him and his intelligent sarcasm since nD and it’s taken me that long to accept that he ‘ain’t gonna change’. I have a son like that…I never told you all…a literary genius of sorts with the sense of humor to go w/it and he makes me laugh like no other.
OK…now everyone can hate on me even more.
I still love it here.
Ronald: By the way, Barbra Streisand was on Oprah yesterday! She was interviewed for fifteen minutes and then sang one song. Since you’re a fellow fan….I thought you might enjoy this:
BTW….Noticeably absent is the forever opinionated ABRRA ……would love to hear your take on this Abrra.
Please, just for me?
Jello, “that he ‘ain’t gonna change’.” And on this, neither will I.
Off topic, I haven’t seen Vee in a long time, does she still come? What about Beebee? Dawn? Knotlisa?
I still love this site even though I don’t always agree with everything that is said here. That’s how it is with family. You take the good, the bad, and the ugly, and you grow and let go.
Peace out.
Bebereader #199, thank you very much for posting the Barbra video. But my eyes are bloodshot now from the debate, so I’ll have to view it later.
Just wanted to say that I re-read Rascal’s article just now, and I thought the tone was funny and matter-of-fact. I will not answer the point raised about the issue of tone quite yet (it’s very late), but my initial, gut reaction is: why are we raising so much fuss about the tone of the article, when the underlying issue should concern us much, much more?
The vast majority of you were in as much shock as I was when the Utah arrest story broke out. Then, when the media forgot about it, we wanted to forget about it and stop talking about it (and deny it) as quickly as possible as well. For months now, David has been out of the limelight. We will see how well his Christmas CD will sell (I’m optimistic
), but when his star rises, the question of Jeff’s involvement won’t go away. Again I repeat that one would be naive to think otherwise.
–
Lastly, to Goboywonder: it seemed to me that you stated your position way back in #26: “I don’t think the point is whether the father is just or right or even lovable, the point is he is his father. David has never to my knowledge publicly denounced or condemned his dad.” It seems you would object to any public criticism of Jeff because David is not speaking publicly about him, even if Jeff were not “just or right or even lovable.” And so when it comes to decisions Jeff makes as David’s co-manager that negatively affect David’s career (you have neither denied nor defended Jeff’s actions in relation to David’s career, which is the real, more important question of this thread), it seems you would argue that fans should not be critical because David has said nothing about it, even if this negatively affects David’s career. I believe this is where we diverge and disagree.
–
And as for still holding the TDC love, I am the same old me! Shalom!
Goboywonder: Cool. I am glad that you are taking a stance and sticking to it.
Wish I could be that mature.
At my first nursing position at Vanderbilt Med Center, a peer gave me a badge/pin to wear that said: “NO,NO,NO!!! well…maybe..”
Guess that pretty well sums me up….how lame.
Playing Devil’s Advocate here, I’d like to make a few claims of my own. First: on round one, This is incorrect information. If we are to believe David on what happened here, it was not Jeff that recommended David putting in that line but a member of American Idol. It wasn’t until after calls for David’s disqualifications that TPTB claimed it was all a misunderstanding. Though to this day, they have never claimed it was a staff member. And David himself, has claimed his dad was never banned. I remember some of his snarky comments on interviews, paraphrasing -hello, he has to be there. I’m a minor.
My take on that situation has always been American Idol tried to saddle Jeff as the “Bad Stage Dad” to help manipulate the viewing audience. I have read on many of the anti sites how they didn’t and still don’t believe that David is doing this under his own accord.
Round two: Fact is, the women was not arrested for prostitution. The only thing is that she was fined for not having a current business license. Jeff’s take on that was – he was there for a back message and did not contest it because he didn’t want to drag David or his family through the mud.
(Granted, a shady excuse and evidence points to that not being the truth, but Jeff was able to name the type of message he was there for. A name I never heard before, but others have claimed it was real.)
Lightning round: The only thing I can say about this one is what Ray, Alex and everybody else who has worked FOR David has said: David is the BOSS. So, if David is the boss and says what goes on his cd, then David has okayed, and possibly even wanted his father’s name prominently displayed on the Christmas cd.
My own feelings on this is, yes, I believe Jeff is living part of a dream that he denied himself and David, being a kind and empathetic soul, is allowing Jeff a chance to share that dream. Not to mention, who doesn’t want to share with their family? And to the person wondering if Jeff is a good songwriter, (sorry, didn’t want to go back to try and find ya)
Jeff wrote “Dream Sky High” I think its an ok song. It’s on youtube if you want to hear it.
Now my take on this whole discussion- I Love You Guys!
Even when a topic that is so polarizing gets tossed out, I see everyone is comfortable enough to say their piece, without demoralizing any of the other members. Please everyone, don’t change. Pax ((hugs))
I gasped earlier today when I came here during my lunch hour and saw this post, because it felt like a big nasty dark storm was coming. Sad that it did. Should I be more sad instead that this post was written at all?
I only have some random thoughts (read: no attempt at cohesiveness.)
The tone of the delivery of the message in this post is decidedly… angry IMO. I will give all the admins the benefit of the doubt that they have/had reasons to want to send out a strong message. Whether I agree that this is productive or not because of the chosen delivery style, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt that the intention was not just to strike at someone like a frustrated child, but it is to hope that the TPTB hears the grumblings from the fanbase. And why shouldn’t their voice be heard?
The outcry that this sort of harsh criticism towards his manager/father would “hurt” David is a little difficult for me to follow. I am not sure how exactly. Is it because David is fragile, too young? Are we concerned he would feel betrayed if he found out his own fans are not also fans of a family member?
He may however realize not all of his fanbase are going to think alike and behave alike. He already knows his fanbase is diverse. He is a smart young man.
Bliss #69, during the summer tour with Demi, I would imagine David would have done a lot of radio promo interviews in various cities, but there was nothing except for maybe one or so interview with probably djs he knew liked him and would be kind to him. What a lost opportunity for him. He could have been promoting his upcoming album, the tour etc. All because of someone’s “almost inexistent discretion” to quote tibitibis (love your words!).
lotus_b #190 and elsewhere, I am with you in that “this is an internet blog, not a democracy.” There are a lot of judgment calls to be made by the admins and not everybody is going to be pleased all of the time. And heck, some of it I don’t even agree with but you know what, I am not running this blog.
So that said, it does cross my mind that if I were David, no matter how much I have serious issues with my own parent, I would probably not exactly appreciate someone outside of the family severely criticizing him.
But then again, David is a public figure so public criticism of something to do with his career is part of his world now.
But I also understand that we as fans don’t see him as a mere celebrity but more like a loved one. Well we do love him with all our hearts. So I can understand the fury and anger expressed here.
The last of the random thought I had is this: it should be unequivocally clear at this point to anyone, and I’m thinking of those outside of this community in particular and some here who have said rascal is the leader and all or some of us are “followers” (the word “cult” mentioned elsewhere comes to mind), that this place is nothing like a cult. If this storm here was not evidence of that fact, I don’t know what is.
Ronald #202, “Lastly, to Goboywonder: it seemed to me that you stated your actual position way back in #26: “I don’t think the point is whether the father is just or right or even lovable, the point is he is his father. David has never to my knowledge publicly denounced or comdemned his dad.” Does this mean you object to any public criticism of Jeff simply because David is not speaking publicly about him, even if Jeff were not to be “just or right or even lovable”? If so, I would strongly disagree. If not, then I beg you to clarify. I hope we at TDC can reach agreement on at least that.”
My position is that to callously and maliciously berate and malign someone so close to David in such a public forum can only be hurtful to him. How many times in interviews, blogs, vlogs, and tweets have he mentioned the importance of family. You think he doesn’t love his dad? If that were true, then his faith and all else he stands for is naught. That’s not to say they don’t have issues, we all do or did. That’s the nature of parent and offspring. But you certainly don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. I asked a few threads ago, that if Jeff isn’t to help manage David, then who? I rather have Jeff there, in the background for sure, than to let David try to nagivate the shark-infested waters of the music industry on his own. At least until he gets a little older and has a better feel of the business side of music. Before I ever heard of David Archuleta his dad was steering him along. I think they have done very well. Many do not make it as far as David has, ask all those idols for seasons past that I have never heard of. Amazon had to limit the number of cds people could pre-order. Isn’t that a good thing???
Bottom line, whatever Jeff is or isn’t, he is David’s father first and foremost (redundancy intended). By all means critique, criticize, scrutinize, but lets keep it above the belt. It was not the message, but the delivery. There is nothing wrong with discussing or debating the pros and cons of Jeff continuing on as David’s co-manager. But personal attacks are dastardly and divisive. He, David, didn’t like the hostile attacks on his dad from the media and I imagine he’d like it even less from his fans.
I made a new video to “Save the Day”. It is for the children, some young and some too young to be in the situation they find themselves in.
Abrra
This site has lost it’s way. Sad.
Well this just sucks eggs doesn’t it?
I don’t just have a problem with the delivery of the post, but also the message. This post, IMO, violates the terms & conditions of this website. How convenient to say that since he is David’s manager, that this isn’t about David’s personal life, and about a subject he has not commented on as per the terms of this website. His father is part of his personal life, and bringing up this subject now, and saying that the inclusion of his name on the song is the last straw is just utter silliness!
Question 1: are we really still grinding our teeth about what happened on that silly TV show? I realize you include this to show questionable character.
Question 2: I guess it would been a much better decision to retain the services of a high-priced, STD-tested provider?
Question 3: I know nothing about this….perhaps a little more information would help us understand the problem.
Lighting Round: He co-wrote the song and had the nerve to say so and didn’t include the other writers name in the write-up? OMG how terrible! Perhaps next he’ll poison the water supply…
Just because he turned 18 doesn’t mean that the contract just expires. He is David’s co-manager for the time being. David has not decided to change that and perhaps cannot while under the 3 album deal with Jive. Jeff has shown that he has questionable personal judgement, sure. But stating co-writing credits on a song doesn’t/shouldn’t throw his discretions back into some spotlight. We are the ones that are doing that, not the press. Sure, be hurt and mad at him if you want to but I don’t see David’s career suffering at all.
Sorry admins, but your attempts to argue your points that this post relates to analyzing and debating his career have fallen flat with me.
goboywonder . September 26, 2009 at 4:05 am .
I see Vee in chat for short peroids. Real life has kept her busy. She is around, but maybe not showing much presence.
As for Dawn and knotsliser, I am in touch. Both are well. Sometimes work and family take all one’s attention. I am willing to bet that soon we will see them.
ABrra
Lotus- is there any debate about the admins’ right to post on their own site? If I am going to eat ice cream for breakfast in my own house in front of my guests, is there any debate about my right to do so? Of course I can. The question among adults might be : should I eat it? Is it good for me to eat it? If it is not a great idea, maybe it’s ok once in a while? How about if it’s my birthday? Maybe it just doesn’t set a good example. Maybe it’s just that it’s impolite because the other poor slobs at the table are choking down wheat germ covered tofu.
How would the debate change if I were eating the more mainstream food known as high cholesterol eggs for breakfast? Or if I had the habit of drinking a nice cold Red Bull for breakfast?
Some readers believe that the post is unseemly and tacky and over the top, others think it is an angry childish rant and hurtful, some have objected on the basis of hypocrisy, others like it for the outrageous nature of the graphic and tone. It is what it is people: a post with the headline graphic of the ass of an ass in your face. It is outrageous and that, I suspect, would be why rascal would love it. It was not posted by people who didn’t know exactly what they were doing. You either approve or you don’t ….my 2 cents….got to go…..my ice cream is melting.
Sensible article HG. http://souldavid.wordpress.com/
Dear Rascal
I believe so much of your post has to do with Question 3 and the other ‘questions’ conveniently build momentum around it. I am sorry to know that your efforts and probably those of many dedicated fan admins such as you, were thwarted. (At least, this is what I am guessing from the wording of Question 3). I’m not sure it’s justification for such harsh wording, but on some level, I am glad to know what you think. Were you all just being polite and silent earlier because you were hoping to get the proposal on Jeff’s desk?
Let me just say that I have similar sentiments about Jeff but I wouldn’t bring them to the so called dinner table that you lovely people here have set. That does not mean, however, that I disapprove entirely (eek–double negative–sorry not as eloquent as all of you!). On some level you have addressed the elephant in the fandom and hey, maybe now we can get it out of our systems and move on! I love David!
Thanks, Marlie. Happy, I love you! Voice of reason indeed!
Funny about the ice cream metaphor because I had a craving waking up and I talked myself out of it because it would be unseemly to eat it first thing in the morning. And I’m having breakfast by myself with no guests present! haha!
Oy, social conventions…
hey peeps, my email account has been hacked…. please do not send money! I am home and safe, if you have my email you know who I am… I feel sick about this. The email says I am in England and need help. DISREGARD~~~ My account has been locked down and I can’t get my contacts!!!
refnaf: I knew it wasn’t you when they said, “I’m presently in England and am having some difficulties here because I misplaced my Bag on my way to the hotel where my other valuable things were kept. presently my passport and my things are been held down by the Hotel Management pending when I make payment. I will like you to assist me”
Just didn’t have your accent.
There came a time for me when enough was enough. I am a person who looks for the good in everyone. I am idealistic – I work with children all day LOL! But stuff has gone down that just isn’t right. Two things sent me over the top. One – seeing his name on the official description of the CD. Sure, he has contributed, as have many others. But having his name attached to the CD just opens up the old scandals. Two – we worked our little buns off here for several months to put together an event that would have brought the entire fan community together for a special event – there was a frickin boy’s choir involved furcryingoutloud. Oh, and it was going to raise up to $50,000 for MS, no small feat. When management vetoed that without even consulting with the artist, that was just too much. Enough was enough.
LOL Happy – so philosophically this is an example of the “haves” and the “have nots” in the chaotic, anarchistic cyber world. Those that have eat, ice cream, and those that don’t have, eat tofu with wheat germ
With everything we experience in life, there is stated intention and there is behavior. The quandary is always does the behavior back up the stated intention.
I believe the rules here have been to discuss “respectfully” and if you don’t like what is written go somewhere else. So as a commenter that’s the choice.
As an Admin the choice would be for them to stick to their guns because they are right and somehow also thinking it is a show of strength; but there is also another choice, a very mature choice, and that is to listen to the majority of their valued readership as this blog is not just solely about the power of Admins or solely about the lack of impact for the direction & tone of the blog by contributors and commenters. The readership has a value in the total equation.
There are several issues: First is the tone and the graphics of this piece. The tone and graphics were intended to make an impact. And that has generated the loudest outcry.
Then we have the topic itself. Some are fine with discussing the topic and some feel it is inappropriate. In my opinion that seems to be where most controversial discussions fall at TDC.
Finally, we have the suppositions in the article that have been stated as fact. Some agree with the “facts” and others haven’t seen primary evidence that makes these suppositions facts.
HG, I appreciated your review of the situation on your blog. You dealt with multiple facets ending with fans have to deal with the business side eventually.
As a seasoned adult who has had a lifetime of business and family issues that deal with highly sensitive life and career issues (in healthcare & local/state politics) and who used to be an Admin, I am of the opinion that as a compromise to the TDC readership, the article and comments should be made private.
ref – I got that email. How annoying for you. Hope it doesn’t cause alot of extra work and grief for you.
I can’t say much that hasn’t already been said..for both sides. What I “feel” about Jeff and his behavior is a non-issue for me. I can’t fix him or change the fact that he is Davids father. What has bothered me is that many regular commenters here, since this posts onset, have felt compelled to not come back. Many well-spoken, educated, (I’m guessing) reactions like these would have me, IMHO asking if, as admin., should we respect the fairly large population of negative responses and send this post to private?
I rarely comment anymore, but I feel it’s important to weigh in on this thread:
I might be in the minority, but I support the orginal post here. I am a member of the dreaded media, so being critical just comes easier for me. If you love someone, set them free, right?; sheltering someone from reality will only make that ultimate confrontation with reality more devastating.
Those of you who are being critical of the admins should remember that their admiration of David the person and artist is so profound that it has become a pillar of their souls by now. And many have valuable wisdom to combine with that unflinching love. We’re lucky to have them in the fan community.
I’ve post this before, so sorry if it seems redundant. But I always think of this passage from Oscar Wilde when these kind of debates flare up:
“The artist is the creator of beautiful things.
To reveal art and conceal the artist is art’s aim.
The critic is he who can translate into another manner or a new material his impression of beautiful things.
The highest as the lowest form of criticism is a mode of autobiography.
Those who find ugly meanings in beautiful things are corrupt without being charming. This is a fault.
Those who find beautiful meanings in beautiful things are the cultivated. For these there is hope.
They are the elect to whom beautiful things mean only beauty.”
Caseydog: Context is everything. Thank you for reminding us this:
“Those of you who are being critical of the admins should remember that their admiration of David the person and artist is so profound that it has become a pillar of their souls by now.”
Hi Caseydog:
Good to hear from you.
I would also note that it isn’t just the Admins that have an “admiration of David the person and artist…so profound that it has become a pillar of their souls by now.”
I think that speaks about both Admins, Contributors and readers/commenters at TDC.
I have dealt over the years with members of the “dreaded media.” While I can appreciate freedom of speech, I also understand editorial directives and slants.
Beautiful passage by Wilde. As always, what is beautiful remains in the eye of the beholder.
Abbra, thank you for a lovely video!
Loved your quote, Caseydog. I have life experience with
the autobiographical bit.
^_^
Abrra#210
Master is wise.
“The gods had condemned Sisyphus to ceaselessly rolling a rock to the top of a mountain, whence the stone would fall back of its own weight. They had thought with some reason that there is no more dreadful punishment than futile and hopeless labor.”
Albert Camus
Going to my studio.
Grasshopper
….. as I was saying.
Liz, So this is really about Rascal feeling “dissed’ by Jeff et al when he (and others) tried to arrange a private concert, and was rebuffed and dismissed. Correct me if I’m wrong, but was not the charitable component a Plan B after the original attempt to arrange a non-charitable event failed? Is it not possible that David’s team receives numerous requests for such appearances, and cannot possibly consider any of them due to scheduling, etc.?
Personally, I would have loved for such an event to have taken place. You know what, stuff happens, and to quote the Rolling Stones “You can’t always get what you want”. That’s no excuse for Rascal to throw a hissy fit and use this site. to vent his bruised ego. There are therapists out there for that purpose.
Comic relief! I just received in the mail a special Demi Lovato laminate on a lanyard, a Demi Lavato mirror compact, and an “exlusive” wall poster. Theater of the Absurd indeed. Thank goodness I was able to intercept the mail before my family got to it. Now I just have to figure out a way to eliminate the “evidence.” lol
bluesky . September 26, 2009 at 12:05 pm .
Thank you. Something has come to light that I need to add to it. I will post the revised one in a day or so.
Abrra
YJfanofdavid . September 26, 2009 at 12:39 pm .
E-Bay it! Support your David ticket habit?
Abrra
Bliss: The charitable component was added VERY early in the discussions. There was no initial rejection. There was only one after many details had been agreed upon and contracts were in hand but as yet, unsigned.
Happy #211 : I also love your ice cream metaphor! Enjoyed your entire post.
Ooops sorry forgot to turn off the bold…ugh.
YJfanofdavid: I am afraid to go to my mailbox today…..
Could it be b/c I reluctantly joined Demi’s fanclub 3 times during the summer??
marlie, what was the reason given?
LittleM: They said, Have spoken to management and are no longer interested.
Marlie7, thanks for the clarification. That would have been a great event. Sorry it didn’t take place. I would have been there with bells on.
It seems that Rascal has a problem “letting things go”. In his rant, he also resurrected and led off with, my AARP attempt at humor, and concluded that it was meant to offend those “of a certain age”. Since I am ensconced in that age group, never to return, I find it amusing that he would draw that conclusion. In any event, that was 3 weeks ago, an eternity in Archu-time, and
yet he feels the need to unearth it to assist him in making his lame point.
There was one positive result of this whole mess. The “Stepford Wife-esque” lock step fawning over every utterance from Rascal on this site seems to have, mercifully, come to an end. It’s good to be playing a level playing field. That’s the kind of field David plays on.
Bliss: Thanks – it would have been an amazing event for all the fansites.
As for your comments about Rascal, tell them to him, not me. I don’t speak for him and he doesn’t speak for me. He’s a big boy and can be addressed directly.
marlie, no other reason? Was management aware of all the discussions that had been going on over time?
Goboywonder #206, I appreciate the love and concern you express for David. I am also glad that you say it is okay to have a critical eye on Jeff’s role as manager.
As for tone, I think it boils down to the fact that within the fanbase people have very different views of the actual role Jeff plays in things. If one views that Jeff is there to love and support his son, then of course it would seem out of proportion to adopt the sharp tone of this article.
Thank you everyone for your participation. TDC is definitely a place where a wide variety of views is expressed LOL!
angelofdja- What has bothered me is that many regular commenters here, since this posts onset, have felt compelled to not come back. Many well-spoken, educated, (I’m guessing) reactions like these would have me, IMHO asking if, as admin., should we respect the fairly large population of negative responses and send this post to private?
Well if people stop posting because between many adoring main post it was one that is not that rose..is very unfortunately and with all the respect all the posters here merit, very inmature too. Myself i stucked in some situations where my opinion is the opposite of the more well spoken persons here (I supported the Hanna M/Icarly thing, The summer tour with Demi and Disney relationship with David, i think his first album is good and i don’t support the VIP event), i try to convince others about my position if i can’t convince them, well i just move on to the next post.
I’m lurking person almost all the time since the ‘Think of Me’ post in the old site i find some posts very interesting and others a little over the top, then i just go to the next post.
I can understand the lenguage control from the administration , but lenguage control can’t be the same that opinion control, if you can express your feelings in a reapectful way, positive or negative opinion about David’s career is GOOD.
I’m afraid that the ‘We can’t go to some subjets because David or David people is lurking’ ( I don’t think so btw) is Wrong, and little intimidant for all the persons who want to express theirs opinions here and i feel we can fall into a nice try to put the opinion of all the fanbase under the same preconception idea of what is be ‘a good fans’
You are a good fan even if you are not fan of Davids manager, that not erase your work promoting David like singer and like person and i don’t feel either that if you don’t have a good opinion about some issues in David,s career you are an hypocritical person.
I’m sure this is not gonna be the last time this issue come like a delicate subjet in the fanbase of David. This person is part of Davids career and want to be notice so receive criticisme is the price to pay an not inusual and tbh , beside the main post i don’t saw any post espressed in a bad lenguage or over the top
sick of casting stones……….how does all this support David……….
Marlie7, point taken. The more I think about the possibility of a “private” concert, the more I would have loved for it to have happened. I was lucky enough to have gone to the PC Richard event. It had a very schmoozy, “insider” feel to it. David was relaxed and in prime form, and the small crowd was lovin’ their David like nobody’s business that night. When it comes to David, less is more, although more ain’t too shabby either.
i would have to agree with both the original article and with ronaldsf in post 238.
all i have to say is remember the whole MacCauly Culkin problem during is parents separation. in a lot of these situations the decisions made have less to to with the young actor or in Davids case the young artist and more with what can be done to maximize the amount of money being made (which includes a nice percentage for managers).
also having parents manage ones career can be troublesome when their ideas class on where to take them as artists… anyway i ramble. Parents should sit back and support their kids not try to build business relationships with them.
Just because one can rationalize things does not mean one still doesn’t hurt.
And the hurt here does not involve David. It is the direction that my favorite blog in the ArchUniverse has taken.
Again it is my hope that being right takes a back seat and give way to consideration for those affected.
Thanks TDC Admin for allowing us mere members to post our comments.
Amen JR.
WOW..gone one day and I come back to this! LOL! I only skimmed over this article, but if it is about Jeff’s name being on the Christmas cd..I agree with Rascal! I would think after all the drama and rumors on AI and then the incident with law, that he would realize he is compromising his sons career. I do not think he should have put his name on the cd, even if he did help write it. He has a beautiful wife, yet he was accused of receiving services from a prostitute, and then he writes a Christmas song…what a hypocrite! I do think this article is a little extreme, but its deserving in my book. No, I do not think David would like this, and I’m sure he does love his father. I know the media will have a hay day with this one…and that is what bothers me. He does not deserve this in any way. His dad should have thought about this and how it could possible hurt him. I have heard that the media is commenting about this. I just pray that a big deal will not be made over this and it will not hurt his album sales.
bliss #235 – sorry buddy, it’s not a level playing field and never will be. I am disappointed that you can’t find ways to discuss issues rather than attack people personally. There is a mean-spiritedness to your comments that is tiresome.
Liz, #246 you say “it’s not a level playing field and never will be” and I’M the mean-spirited one? Also, Rascal calls David’s father an “ass” and uses the rear end of an animal to highlight that depiction, and I’M “attacking people personally”. Let me ask you this. If you were to be face to face with David at a VIP, would you feel comfortable reading him Rascal’s article, and embracing its content to David’s face? Would you show David the pictures of the asses and say “This is what my web site thinks of your father”?
Ironically, I received a very nice E- mail tonight from another TDC member stating how funny she thought my latest post was. Different strokes for different strokes.
Lighten up. Liz.
Good Sunday morning!
I came back to this thread because of what I am going to say. And I am saying this at the risk of..well I don’t really know, but I think we all better get used to the “facts” as they appear to be.
David had a grand time last night. He was with Jeff as well as others. Joanie from FOD said she had a good conversation with Jeff. Said he looked great, like he & David had been working out together. Jeff told her the tour dates will be forthcoming and the dates will be “sooner rather than later”. Jeff said Lupe had “salsa night” which was why she was not there also. Joanie photographed Jeff backstage a few times, with Benton Paul, Ashlee and others.
My point is, Jeff appeared to be WITH David. David is Jeff’s son first & foremost. The family seems to be intact. Whether Jeff starts to be more visible is yet to be seen but if he accompanies David on the next tour..so be it.
So for everyone who hoped Jeff would disappear never to be heard or seen again with David, you are in for a rude awakening. Children DO forgive their parents indiscretions. David is a very compassionate, non-judgemental, loving, person. I’m not going to pretend that I like Jeff, in fact I can barely look at his photos, but without Jeff, we would not have David. I am trying, REALLY trying to see past my own prejudice of Jeff, if for no other reason than to be more like David, this young man who has taught me more about what life is about than almost anyone else. And that is saying a lot!
This post I know is NOT about Jeff’s personal relationship with David, but about the managing of David’s career, and I say again..Jeff was there at the beginning, is still there, and will most likely ALWAYS be there as David’s manager..it is what it is, like it or not. It has nothing and should have nothing to do with how we support David.
Have a great Sunday. Peace!
SF, I am glad I caught your post even through there are now two new threads. And thanks for that, a small glimpse into David’s life. I don’t have the desire to add any more commentary to this post, the content and/or the tone but just felt like touching on the more personal side of the parent/child relationship since this bit of news about Jeff being with David last night is brought up.
Parent/child relationships can be so complicated and complex sometimes and I would want more than anything for David to be at peace and happy with Jeff. So to that end, how I would love to actually SEE some pix surface that actually show the two of them interacting and smiling. I say this, because I don’t recall (someone can correct me and I’d be very happy) ever seeing an image captured of a moment of a father son interacting in a warm manner (I don’t count the one after passing through the initial audition) and the two were together for the entire season of AI and the tour and beyond, until the scandalous news broke out. What are the odds one can never catch one picture of the two looking at each other with a happy face?? The only thing we ever saw was videos of Jeff approaching David with David not even looking at him, barely responding.
So, while I am glad to know they are “working out together”, I want more than words, words as relayed by a third party no less, I want to see an image. A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS!! I’m waiting for that picture even if Jeff’s image would still make me wince at the moment.
To your words SF, “I am trying, REALLY trying to see past my own prejudice of Jeff, if for no other reason than to be more like David”, me too.
I was staying away from this thread. It’s pretty painful. I was thinking about what David would think. And it reminds me of one of his tweets from a few weeks ago.
“This is really bugging me that the airport security is carelessly going through everything in my backpack and all I can do is watch.11:16 AM Aug 29th from txt
Vermeer, in all honesty, I don’t imagine there will be many, if any photos taken of David with Jeff in the near future. I really believe David knows and is sensitive to how some of his fans react to his father so because of that, I think David will make an effort to not be photographed with Jeff. At least for the time being. Which of course is why Jeff has not been seen with David since the end of May, at least not publicly. There is one photo where David is seen hugging Jeff and it was taken at the NYE concert when David went around hugging everyone.
You are right though. A photo is worth a thousand words, but those words can have negative as well as positive connotations attached. Like you, I want David to have as happy and peaceful life as possible. He deserves nothing less. I pray for that every night. For where would we all be now if not for David?
Betsy, you are right. Time to go read what looks like another great post by Ronald.
Sorry, but I keep coming back here. I cannot even enjoy all the lovely postings since because this feels like a roadblock in cyberspce that I had hoped would be gone.
rae: Here’s a cure. Steaming hot cup of tea and a viewing of CELD, HD preferred.
Vermeer #249, “Parent/child relationships can be so complicated and complex sometimes and I would want more than anything for David to be at peace and happy with Jeff. So to that end, how I would love to actually SEE some pix surface that actually show the two of them interacting and smiling.
“So, while I am glad to know they are “working out together”, I want more than words, words as relayed by a third party no less, I want to see an image. A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS!! I’m waiting for that picture even if Jeff’s image would still make me wince at the moment.”
WTF??? Why do fans feel so entitled?
248 SF, 250 betsy, 255 goboywonder …. truth and wisdom. Thank you.
goboywonder and emmiegirl, but mostly goboywonder for the “WTF???” Are you saying it wouldn’t warm your heart to see the father and son looking happy together? I would love to see that. I did not say I DEMAND to see such an image. I am sorry to both if through my comment I came across as feeling “entitled”. That was not the intention.
Siverfox:¨My point is, Jeff appeared to be WITH David. David is Jeff’s son first & foremost. The family seems to be intact. Whether Jeff starts to be more visible is yet to be seen but if he accompanies David on the next tour..so be it.¨
i promise too this will be my last post. saying this i just want to be clear that at least in my case ( and i read many other posters with a same position)I really , really hope David’s family doing well, because like many others here i want see David always happy even if in the real life is imposible.
I pretty conscious that Jeff will be always present in David’s life, i mean he is his father and surely will be always his manager, but i hope he will gonna have a more discreet behavior, because tbh i can accept his presence in some events, but i can’t understand his need of be caught in every picture and video or be named in every article or description of David’s work, just because he need to be noticiable.
I was a defending of Jeff last year, but i turned away because i started to see the same that vermeer describe in the post above and because add. i had a hard time selling David’s image to a new fans when the first and only reference they have of David is his fathers behaviour that the media reported and what is worse when after a happy talk about David and his music people go to internet and the only negative attached to David news are about his father. and let me tell you that in some cultures we have things that are very difficult to explain and justify.
I never questioning David’s people talent( is not the point) and at this point i can’t said if his management are doing a good work, is to soon, but for the moment i agree with some decisions and disagree with others and point the responsability in David’s comanagement Azzof and Jeff .
i really hope that this time Davids father gonna use a good judgement and especially Big discretion and about the fans don’t gonna start the fangirly aroud him.
I take the risk with this last post just because i need to be clear, i’m a fan who work hard to promote David , but who have disagreements with some situations in his career, nothing else.
And i love come here to express thats opinions and read others people opinions with all the respect all the posters merit. I i hope this site can continue with the usual harmony in spite the differents points views of all the posters. The fansites i guess are the sites to create friends and not enmity…so PEACE EVERYBODY.
Note; i hope i use my limited english in a good way and not offend anyone, if that is the case forgive me. Bye
I posted a new Short Take last night. We have a new Feature post – a gorgeous piece of writing by Ronald. This post is rolling off. Then Liz posted a lovely Fable with a beautiful picture of a serene forest.
If you want this topic to go away, stop commenting. It will slide off the radar unless you keep bring it to the forefront. If you want it in the forefront, then by all means, keep commenting.
Disappointed…I used to be a regular and I stopped because of this type of debate / negativity. I pop in every once in a while to check on the postings and it always seems that when I do there are several posters concerned about David’s management, marketing, career path, etc. DAVID IS FINE. DAVID IS A SUCCESS. DAVID IS DESTINED TO BE AN EVEN GREATER SUCCESS. DAVID WILL BE A MUSIC LEGEND BEFORE HE IS DONE. DAVID WILL WORK OUT HIS MANAGEMENT. What we, his fans need to learn is PATIENCE!!!!! I have said from the beginning that it will be David’s 2nd or maybe 3rd album that will catapult him to superstardom. I love the excitement from this group and the recognition of true musical genius but I find these debates exhausting. I came tonight expecting postings about the joy on David’s face while on stage with Brooke, Michael Johns and Paul Benton. I am so sad to have found this. Did I miss something in the media beyond the announcement of the CD? Is Jeff going to trial or something? Is there going to be a tarring and feathering that I missed?
Relax, please.
Am not an expert of international media press, particularly in the US but let me share this when david was here 6 full days & 5 nights. Not once did we see Jeff with David in an official photograph. He was always at the back somewhere. But he was there. Ray was the one always prominently shown with David.
There was one photo/video taken that had Jeff in it but that was in the radio station and it was not even a real photo opp cos it was taken by the girls gifted by their father to be on the other side of the radio booth while David was being interviewed. Am not even sure Jeff was aware they were being photograophed/videotaped. Am sure david was cos he said hello to the girls through the glass.
Don’t get me wrong. Am not beholden to Jeff. I was one of those who was harsh on him on Archuleta Philippines because of his indiscretion. I said mhy piece once and to me that was enough.
So, why am I bringing this up? Because perhaps his “prominence” may also have to do with the kind of media that we have. You just have to choose whether you want to play their game.
Songbird, I’m with you on this. For some reason, the “fans” here think they are entitled to
have input concerning the manner in which David is managed. It’s as if fans of a baseball team feel they should be consulted before a pitcher is taken out of the game or a pinch hitter is used. The word “fan” used to be synonymous with “spectator”. Now, fans think they should be part of the team that determines what occurs in an artists life. When they are “put in their place”, which is what happened here with that “Charity” event, they look for villains and demonize them (him) for doing so.
BTW, tickets for the tarring and feathering of Jeff are on sale on Ticketmaster as we speak
?????Auch!:( Bliss, gonna post again , because in all this discussion i don’t se any hard expression to make reference to the person you defend(well only the main post). And i find your post a litte harsh with the people who don’t share your opinion. at least for me is Ok if you think all is right and perfect and is Ok too if your opinion is that something need to change.
I can understand if people are mad with the lenguage used in the main post.
I can understand if we don’t go to the personal live of David and David’s family, but this is not the case we talk about the management and the manager, pass that is his father too.
I can understand we have different perceptions about David’s management and about the role of Jeff in the public image of David. No, most of fans are not experts in the subjet that doesn’t mean we can send the feedback about the estrategies used to make grow up his career, in fact is what the fans of any artist do usally, chat in the fansite about the good and about the not that good.
Almost all the fans, even who don’t like Jeff believe David gonna be big, because he has a big talent and all this fans gonna continue to support his career , even if sometimes we gonna make some criticismes, and i really think David can handle very well.
Not nobody has the last word here and nobody have the absolute truth (verdad absoluta), not you i certainly not me.
I know you are a big poster here and my call is only to be fair in this discussion,we are differents persons with differents opinions and point views and i glad we can share them and discuss with the respect all of us merit here.
saying that i,m gled both of us can express thats point views in a mature way and site.So Thanks TDC for that.
Now i really move on (well i actually move on since yesterday)
Peace.
Bliss – Actually I consider it part of the job of a blog to report, to criticize, to make fun of, to celebrate – all aspects of the management and career of our beloved artist. If we were just passive fans, there would be nothing to talk about. BORING! Certainly reporting actions of management falls within that parameter. I don’t think any of the admins use the criteria of “showing an article to David” before it is published. We don’t have grand illusions of creating change, but we do have a sense of what issues should be discussed. Okay – this particular article was in-your-face, but come on guys, it was also freakin’ hilarious. Guess some of us have a different sense of humor. I can live with that.
One more thing bliss – no one was put in their place. The motivation for the article came not from the concert cancellation, but from the last straw of the manager’s name featured prominently in the promotional materials. There was a choice made to put across this point in a less-than-serious way.
Again – your constant battling and use of insults is tiresome. You are a guest in this house.
Tibitibis, thanks for your feedback. My position is very clear to me. I am a fan of David Archuleta. I love his music and I love him. I don’t know him personally and he does not know me.He is in the music business. That means that he, like all artists, have a management team that guides him and promotes his talent and “sells” it to the public. It is no different from any other artist or celebrity. We either “buy” it or we don’t. Fortunately for David and his fans, people are “buying” him, and that allows him to continue to make albums and appear at concerts. If they weren’t, he’d be Sanjaya.
I love the fact that the people at TDC wanted to have David perform at a private function for his many adoring fans on this site. I would have shelled out whatever it took to be there. A proposal to management was made, and for whatever reason , was rejected. What a bummer!
I don’t have all the facts , but it appears that when the initial proposal was rejected, the concept was repackaged to coincide with MS Crush, one of David’s many charities. Again, it was rejected by management,. for whatever reason.
Not to appear cynical and/or harsh, but here goes. When the proposal was rejected, was there any attempt by the promoters of that event to raise money from the fans here and still give money to David’s charity? It seems that unless David would perform for us, his charity would have to go elsewhere for their funding.If I am wrong, I apologize, but no full explanation of the circumstances surrounding this proposed event was ever published on TDC, so I am filling in some blanks.
Out of the blue, Rascal’s article appears, complete with numerous pictures of a horse’s ass, and direct references to Jeff Archuleta as being the ass in question. Since Jeff had been pretty much out of the limelight since his “incident in Utah”, I found it odd that such a scathing diatribe would appear at this time. Frankly, it sounds like sour grapes.
Although I find these “serious” issues interesting to discuss and debate (sometimes heatedly), my main focus is always the joy that I feel from David and his sharing with all of us his unique and wonderful talent. I feel blessed, and in some ways, reborn, since I’ve connected to this handsome young man with the golden voice and heart. The other stuff pales in comparison. Look at David’s beaming smile on that stage the other night. Management, shmanagement!
The admins here worked hard for a number of weeks to put together a special event for the extended blogging community. The charity aspect was there almost from the beginning. Since it was a private event, there was no possibility of sharing the information until everything was in place. Negotiations with all the proper channels had been ongoing for some time, and we were ready to sign a formal contract. Then suddenly we were told that management had no interest in the event. We were bummed, of course, but there are no sour grapes here. We actually hope to try again in the future.
Again, the impetus for the article was the inclusion of management’s name in the promotional materials.
Bliss: There was only one proposal – charity and all. One rejection – charity and all. Please don’t make suppositions about the facts of this effort and pass them off as “it appears”.
It looks like just about everything that can be said on this thread has been said. We’ll be closing comments and moving on to the current topics.
Thanks!