Knowing David
One from the Archuvault
This is somewhat of a slow time in Archuland, and the next Feature we have lined up is not quite done, so I thought it would make sense to look in the ole Archuvault and see what was there…
And voilà! Exactly one year ago today was this stimulating article from Rascal on NotingDavid. (There’s such a rich legacy of great articles here that I think it would be great to dust off some oldies but goodies and put em in the ole record player for another spin!)
-Ronaldsf
NotingDavid – January 15, 2009:
I received an interesting correspondence from a member who expressed an interest in discussing the implications of David’s choices of favorite music and musical artists, as evidenced by things like his “song of the day” suggestions. The only concern I have about highlighting this as a topic is our ability to confine discussion here to David’s artistic interests and inclinations. Comments could very easily lead to speculation about David’s personal life and private thoughts, therefore I would ask that we please be extremely careful and respectful in this regard.
I did want to blog about this perhaps especially because the member who wrote to me expresses what I fear is a fairly common set of perceptions and expectations among the DA fan base, views that I feel are at least in part somewhat misguided. In regards the song, “A Stranger in Moscow,” my correspondent speculates on what contributes to David’s enthusiasm for this song:
…Is it the “message” -? That’s what scares me about our David liking this song. His life to present has been so “special” – does he feel isolated deep inside – does he feel he has to go out in the rain at night to find new friends?
And, later on, this:
… (I) wonder what a “young”, barely-18-year-old-Mormon-boy with such wonderful gifts and talents sees in Jason Mraz …I guess I’m “judging” him personally with lyrics (such as those) from “Butterfly” that just don’t seem to fit with the image of what I feel DA is trying to create.
First and foremost, I do not agree that David is trying to create or maintain a particular public image. That strikes me as far too contrived for him. David simply is who he is, and as many have already remarked, not all of his fans are likely to agree with all of his choices as his career unfolds, and I dare say quite a few of them are likely to be very surprised by a few things–especially things like lyrics.
Even though I do not believe it is a contrivance, David’s public persona is just that — the public face of a private person. I do not believe it is disingenuous, but neither does it represent by any means all that David is as a person. It is enticing to buy into the “sweet Mormon boy” image (an image created not by him but by public interpretations of his manner and his biography), but this view is a caricature. David may be sweet and he may be Mormon, but he is also a fully realized human being, now an adult, with all that that implies.
All one has to do is listen to any of the slightly more serious songs that David has recorded and it is instantly clear that he has a depth of understanding about the human condition that suggests both an inner and outer life that involves far more complexity and contradiction than may be hinted at in any dimension of his expression or persona except his music. As I have said before, David does “darkness” very well. Michael Jackson is a highly controversial figure, and it does not surprise me that David identifies with him; the innate musical genius, the child-like wonder, and, yes, the isolation, the darkness, of being so uncommon.
As for the highly sexualized nature of the some of the music produced by some of David’s favorite artists, just because David currently chooses not to engage in such expressions in his own work, doesn’t mean he rejects or cannot appreciate such aspects in the work of others. I confess I would be far more concerned if David harbored some categorical repudiation of anything beyond the bounds of strict piety (I’ve decided to consider the shorts drawing incident an aberration; besides, life and art are two very different worlds for David). That is decidedly not the framework within which artistic temperament tends to flourish.
Finally, I have a distinct sense that we will always know a lot more about David from his music and from his appreciation and discussion of music than we will ever know otherwise. On the one hand, I think it is easy to read too much into these musical selections, on the other hand they are probably more revealing than any interview will ever be.
- Rascal
ABOUT THIS AUTHOR
No one has commented yet, so I thought I would pull out one of my favorite parts:
All one has to do is listen to any of the slightly more serious songs that David has recorded and it is instantly clear that he has a depth of understanding about the human condition that suggests both an inner and outer life that involves far more complexity and contradiction than may be hinted at in any dimension of his expression or persona except his music.
I feel like David’s power to resonate with something within us, that ringing cry in his voice when he sings “Imagine” and “O Holy Night” and in songs both secular and spiritual, is based in some strength through sorrow that he must have earned through experience -- where else would he get it from, I ask?
And haven’t we all had our own stories, our own bases of our strength? I think a danger of idealizing a person is that one can lose sight of the struggling human being, the person that is actually more like us than we might realize otherwise. And where does that leave us in terms of how we view ourselves?
This article is as much about not knowing David as it is about knowing David, so I thought I would give it a good dusting.
Hmmm, I posted a while ago. Geez, I wonder if it’s in moderation LOL I’ll go look!
No. I don’t know where it went.
Ronald: I selected that very same quote to comment on. It seems to me that part of David’s appeal is his ability to deliver us into the emotion of any song he does. I don’t think that is something he can fake, or would ever want to, and it gives us a glimpse into his heart and soul.
He is human, and has had triumphs and disappointments, felt love and betrayal, longing and exuberance. I believe he is extremely empathetic and feels very deeply for those he sees who hurt or are lonely or poverty stricken. I believe he can feel what it might feel like to be those people and he is able to evoke and share those feelings through music. His very humanness and his willingness to show that is what makes him so very special.
I have been on several “neutral” sites and the consensus there is still the same. “Oh, how sweet and adorable Archie is”, written in a very patronizing manner. Which has always chapped my hide. I feel they are doing David an extreme disservice by refusing to see “a fully realized human being, now an adult, with all that that implies.”
From reading their comments, I get that seeing David as a Disney character brought to life is safe and is easy to dismiss him; which I find is quite sad. Now on my side of the fantasy- I wish that they would remove their blinders and realize David is not the shallow caricature they want him to be, but an extremely gifted and intelligent artist that has a lot to share with the world, if only they would give him the chance.
cutter12: seeing David as a Disney character brought to life This is it exactly! And I agree with you totally. David has more depth than that. I often wonder if because parts of the fanbase appear to “mother” him, if it makes it hard for non-fans to see him as an artist and take him seriously as an adult musician.
I don’t think that non-fans (beyond immediate friends and family) are aware at all of what we say around these sites or to each other, so I don’t think there’s a cause-and-effect relationship between the idealization of David and their disinterest. However, I do think that over-idealizing David does mean that some of us have more of a disconnect with non-ODDers, and encounter greater trouble conveying “the good word” to others. There’s something real and in-this-world about his connection to us… the challenge is how to understand it and communicate it.
I think another issue is our relationship to David: while I’m sure he very much appreciates the impassioned devotion, he frankly may be ambivalent about it as well. I try to think about how I would feel, if I happened to be a hawt male teen star with hundreds of thousands of women of all ages admiring me. (By the way I’m not.) Unless I chose to be a womanizer, I would definitely feel some ambivalence about it all. I’m sure David’s got to feel some disconnect between how he views himself and how he is perceived. I think that’s part of why he blogs and vlogs so often (in addition to the fact that he is utterly sweet)—he feels he must maintain an equal (not vertical) relationship with fans.
But Ah!—to be his best friend without falling in love with him! Now THAT is a challenge!
Marlie --
He is human, and has had triumphs and disappointments, felt love and betrayal, longing and exuberance. I believe he is extremely empathetic and feels very deeply for those he sees who hurt or are lonely or poverty stricken. I believe he can feel what it might feel like to be those people and he is able to evoke and share those feelings through music. His very humanness and his willingness to show that is what makes him so very special.
Yes, Yes, and Yes!!!
I am really enjoying all of your comments.
Ronald, thanks for dusting off this article from the Archuvault. It and everyone’s comments make me think of something the director who did David’s ALTNOY music video said: “There is a lot going on behind those eyes”, or something like that. I remember thinking ‘this guys sees it, he knows, SO true!’
Lots to chew on here. The notion of over-idealizing, mothering, I think it’s easy to be guilty of doing that as a fan given who David is, but it’s worth pondering on. Just thinking for myself, when talking to others (the foolish non-fans!), I do want so much for David to be taken seriously as that is what he deserves first and foremost, I hope to keep in check the desire to express my admiration for his non-singing qualities (which he has plenty of!), until at least they “get” him and his amazing musical talent.
Cutter, the thing that annoys me THE MOST coming from the foolish non-fans is the comment that he is “too young”. Have heard that more times than I care since the AI days. That irritates me to no end I tell ya!! Too young for what??!! Since when talent or artistry has anything to do with chronoligical age? Ignorant fools!!!
Ronald, you may not be a teen star, but you are a hawt male LOL!! I’m sure anyone who’s met you wouldn’t disagree!
ronald #6 “I don’t think that non-fans (beyond immediate friends and family) are aware at all of what we say around these sites or to each other, so I don’t think there’s a cause-and-effect relationship between the idealization of David and their disinterest.
I don’t think the non-fans know what we say here on fan sites -- they do see the panting, mothering and fanatic adoration by fans who post in comments sections of celebrity and news-site blogs, tweet David into the “food” and “customer service” categories of the shorty awards, and other equally “over-the-top” activities.
The fun of the fan sites is that we can do that pretty much without notice by the non-fans. Good for us all. But carrying it off to the “outside world” is, to me, a disservice to David and makes some of those non-fans downright sick of hearing about him. (God forgive them all! LOL)
PS: Vote for all of David’s fansites (I’m silly to love this stuff) and especially help us get TDC and our friends at snowangelz on the first page LOL
http://tweeter.faxo.com/Best_Fansite?page=2 (TDC)
http://tweeter.faxo.com/Best_Fansite?page=3 (Snowangelz)
Off topic – going through videos and am listening to ktiitk’s YT channel. Has great videos from Baltimore and Westbury – downloaded late. Check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ktiitk#p/u/2/SOh3ja7lHp8
awestruck: OMG, the sound on those videos is exceptional! Thank you.
It is rare that people can capture how David’s voice fills the venue on a video. ktiitk did exactly that! (off to download).
Okay, I just submitted SoulDavid to the twitter contest thingy. Vote for them here:
http://tweeter.faxo.com/Best_Fansite?page=10
Not sure how to say this but to me, some of the comments here seem biased against D’s female fans. Since I haven’t met most of you, I want to clarify that I’m not writing out of anger, but to express an opinion.
The term mother/mothering has been used as opposed to fathering, nurturing, parenting. In a fan base were we see over the top (OTT) behavior everywhere (i.e., critiques, snark, fan videos, voting, spazzing, mocking, etc.), I don’t see the “mothering” as any more detrimental to D’s career than the other OTT behaviors.
#6: “I’m sure David’s got to feel some disconnect between how he views himself and how he is perceived.”
If he is feeling a disconnect, it may have to do with how females AND males react to his presentation of his artistry vs. how they might respond if they really knew him as an individual. Perhaps the disconnect is more w/the fans, our perceptions, and the role we perceive him to fill in our lives vs. who he really is.
desertrat: Excellent point. And I didn’t even think of it. Thanks for the kick in the butt!
And my own comment above mentioned the other kind of OTT behavior, so I’m with you on that.
marlie #15, my remarks weren’t meant as a “butt kick”, they were merely an opinion.
On another note, D sort of reminds me of JSeinfield, Beyonce, and Chris Rock. They all seem very comfortable with fans of all demographics enjoying and respecting their onstage personae. However, some of their fans perceive a disconnect when they see how shy and private they are in their real lives.
desertrat: I knew that -- it was just and expression.
Hey Rascal, good to hear you again. Seems like it was “just yesterday” I was reading this article for the first time.
“As for the highly sexualized nature of the some of the music produced by some of David’s favorite artists, just because David currently chooses not to engage in such expressions in his own work, doesn’t mean he rejects or cannot appreciate such aspects in the work of others.”
AMEN. I too have always suspected this of David. Time and time again, he has shown that he has respect and appreciation for many who choose to express themselves in a way that David himself does not. I believe the notion of choice here is paramount.
Ronald #6:
“There’s something real and in-this-world about his connection to us… the challenge is how to understand it and communicate it.”
Love what you said here. I’ve come to understand it for myself and am very grateful for that. As for communicating it, well…I’ve come to believe that there are few outside of David’s fanbase who are capable of comprehending David’s connection. I have come across some, but they are few and far between.
I’ve stopped questioning long ago. Now I just say, “Lucky me!”
AWESTRUCK(#11) & MARLIE (#12) -- ktiitk‘s videos are in our Baltimore & Westbury Tour Pages already
.
I think I have posted a notification & a link to my mediafire on New Years Day or thereabouts. But of course everyone else’s attention were on the festivities (chuckles)
But I have included the download link in the Tour Page itself for easy access. Westbury is there but I have yet to upload the Baltimore HD vids cos they were posted later.
Here is the link to my mediafire on Westbury: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=b168764a61c78fdf67cd7f7bd65f7eef2c15e9a4c0ad6054d1d3589071dcbd7a
Yeah thanks ktiitk for the fantastic vids!
JR: Should I have known that you would have the best vids on those pages? Yes, I should have! LOL Thanks as always for having everything so well organized on those pages!
Marlie7- Yesterday I was able to vote on the twitter contest, but today you have to now sign in on twitter, which I’m not a part of.
Though, I did count 35 websites for David that were nominated.
Wow, noone else is even close! I find that quite exciting that so many people still want to talk about David.
JR -- As Marlie7… I shoulda known you would have been on top of it.
Oh, oh, oh…. TDC, snowangelz and souldavid are all on page 2 of this twitter thingy… please help to push us all up to page 1. Thanks!
http://tweeter.faxo.com/Best_Fansite?page=2
Well, the votes must have gone down because Faxo.com has changed the rules again. Now you don’t have to be a member of twitter, you just have to prove that you are a human.lol
Currently TDC, Snowangelz and SoulDavid are #27, 33 and 45 respectfully.
Okay, we are getting there. TDC is now on the front page at #25, snowangelz is #33, and souldavid is #45. I’d like to see the whole first page with just David sites and get those jonas bros and twilight fan pages off to page 6 LOL
PS -- I have no idea what is wrong with me LOL It must be a serious case of David withdrawal. My ODD is OTT!
I think I need me some of this:
I know David needs his rest…and to work on his next CD. So, how about one concert per month. A special appearance, a TV show, a charity event. Just something to keep us going. What do you say, David?
Marlie, I think it may be because David has been so quiet lately.
lol
It’s like that one fan who said David is her crack and we are craving our next fix.
But good news, souldavid is now #44. That would be cool to see the first page & a half to be all David’s fansites. And, thanks for the video. It does help the ODD a bit.
I just read David’s tweet asking if he still looks 13 -- poor guy, I think he’s self-conscious about it… But from personal experience, I can attest that he’ll be thankful for this later lol.
You know I’m goofy about these voting things, right?
So let’s help the Golden Archies on this Tweeter Best Fan Site thingy -- they just got entered and are way down on the list. They could use some help
http://tweeter.faxo.com/Best_Fansite?page=14
Well, they are doing all right! Here is the real name of Golden Archies on the Tweeter thing: goldenarchiesproboards.com.
http://tweeter.faxo.com/Best_Fansite?page=2
Ronald #30 When David was asked via twitter today if he ever considered wearing a fake mustache in public (as a disguise) he replied that he was thinking about doing that just yesterday. I’m thinking he had the ladies at the Souvenir Shop in mind when he gave that response ‘cause he did twitter about them yesterday. The two tweets maybe unrelated but it instantly struck me as a sample of David’s “dry wit” showing????
One of the best RIDDLE footage-CFTH Tour HD thanks to ktiitk